@Edward_The_Theist the color of the sky is something everyone agrees on. I understand why someone would walk away from a conversation with you if you asked them to prove the sky was blue: they probably thought you were crazy and walked away. you don't have to be a scientist to say that the sky is blue. What is the connection between being closed minded and accepting the consensus that the sky is blue?

(August 9, 2010 at 3:24 am)The_Flying_Skeptic Wrote: @Edward_The_Theist the color of the sky is something everyone agrees on. I understand why someone would walk away from a conversation with you if you asked them to prove the sky was blue: they probably thought you were crazy and walked away. you don't have to be a scientist to say that the sky is blue. What is the connection between being closed minded and accepting the consensus that the sky is blue?

Concrete thinking is for children, so why don't you stop with it already. The point is not about the sky being blue. The point is about the concept of proof in general.

It's about atheists who go around proudly boasting that "science is the only truth!" When the opinions of scientists change with each and every journal article. No one agrees on anything in the wonderful world of "science." Besides, all science is anymore is grant proposals and what they can get the government to sponsor so it will pay their salaries. Trust me, "science" can't afford to search for truth. "Science" searches for whatever results ensure more grant money. Period. If you have the money, you can get the science.

You go around beating up on the Christian god, and it makes you look stupid. Of course that god doesn't exist. How long are atheists going to keep banging that drum? Until there's no Christian Church? Great, good luck with that. I criticize atheists for not having a definition of that which they don't believe in and you come across in response with a five-year-old's concrete cognition about the blue of the sky . And you still want me to think you're intellectual? You might as well be burning atheist prayer candles.

You say you don't believe in God. What pray tell is this God you don't believe in? Define it. I'll bet you can't. I'll be no one in here can. I'll be no one in here thinks past the concept of the Sunday School god when they think about that which they don't believe in.

I've said it before; I'll say it agian, your intellect, anyone's intellect, is defined by that which they are superior to. If all you got is a disbelief in the Christian god and nothing in its place, you're just one notch up from the toothless hillbilly stompin-and-a-praisin in the First Church of the Third Revelation.

Excuse my rant. I'm kind of addressing you and about fifty other people in here at the same time.

Okay, the floor is yours (unless you're going to start challenging me about what floor, where floor, what do I mean...floor).

(August 9, 2010 at 5:26 am)Edward the Theist Wrote: Concrete thinking is for children, so why don't you stop with it already. The point is not about the sky being blue. The point is about the concept of proof in general.

In what context are you using the word "Proof" amyway? Please explain your objections. Earlier you mentioned it in the sense of what is sufficient evidence or argument for the truth of any given proposition i.e. the sky being blue, but here you're going off on a tangent where I'm no longer sure if you're arguing from epistemology, scientific method or a philosophical viewpoint.

Edward the Theist Wrote:It's about atheists who go around proudly boasting that "science is the only truth!" When the opinions of scientists change with each and every journal article.

Atheists simply don't believe in god (or gods) because the concept is not demonstrable nor manifests in reality that is open to investigation or observation through the senses, quintessentially it does not satisfy their standards of evidence, whether they care whatever findings scientific research yields is a completely different matter altogether.

Edward the Theist Wrote:You go around beating up on the Christian god, and it makes you look stupid.

Likewise Ed you're not allowed to criticise, respond to, or apply any scrutiny to positive claims to knowledge over the Loch Ness Monster's existence, because otherwise that'd make you look really, REALLY stupid.

Edward the Theist Wrote:You say you don't believe in God. What pray tell is this God you don't believe in? Define it. I'll bet you can't. I'll be no one in here can. I'll be no one in here thinks past the concept of the Sunday School god when they think about that which they don't believe in.

We don't have to define what it is that we don't believe in, obviously. Those that do not make any ontologically positive claims for the existence of god or gods have no burden to define it epistemically.

If people start claiming there's a giant frog in the sun and you don't believe for whatever reason and they reject that response by shifting the burden so you can't define their concept, they are being fallacious. They are resorting to informal logical fallacies by simply asserting that the giant frog in the sun is true as long as it has not been refuted. You don't need to refute defeaters to win arguments Ed, you need confirmers for each premise.

Quote:It's about atheists who go around proudly boasting that "science is the only truth!" When the opinions of scientists change with each and every journal article. No one agrees on anything in the wonderful world of "science." Besides, all science is anymore is grant proposals and what they can get the government to sponsor so it will pay their salaries. Trust me, "science" can't afford to search for truth. "Science" searches for whatever results ensure more grant money. Period. If you have the money, you can get the science.

Science changes as our understanding of things inprove, science is self correcting, science is not tied to dogmas! Your understanding of science is much like your understanding of atheism. Science doesn't claim absolute truth, that's a religious premise.

Quote:You go around beating up on the Christian god, and it makes you look stupid. Of course that god doesn't exist. How long are atheists going to keep banging that drum? Until there's no Christian Church? Great, good luck with that. I criticize atheists for not having a definition of that which they don't believe in and you come across in response with a five-year-old's concrete cognition about the blue of the sky . And you still want me to think you're intellectual? You might as well be burning atheist prayer candles.

There is no argument here, just an obvious attempt to provoke an emotional response from an atheist by beating the crap out of a strawman.

Quote:You say you don't believe in God. What pray tell is this God you don't believe in? Define it. I'll bet you can't. I'll be no one in here can. I'll be no one in here thinks past the concept of the Sunday School god when they think about that which they don't believe in.

The persons that define gods are theists, because if someone says something exists, they must define what that thing is. Atheists reject those claims, based on the fact that there is 0 (zero) proof.

Quote:I've said it before; I'll say it agian, your intellect, anyone's intellect, is defined by that which they are superior to. If all you got is a disbelief in the Christian god and nothing in its place, you're just one notch up from the toothless hillbilly stompin-and-a-praisin in the First Church of the Third Revelation.

You can say whatever absurdities that go trough your mind. To repeat it, it won't make it right. I agree with you, you are ranting and I will add that you are ranting senseless. I'm sorry if you feel offended by it, but its your problem, not mine. From the start on, you haven't said anything most of atheists haven't heard before, just the usual rethoric.

Quote:If all you got is a disbelief in the Christian god

It is all you need to know in the context of this discussion. People who believe in fairy tales are not worth wasting a whole lot of time on.

(August 9, 2010 at 5:26 am)Edward the Theist Wrote: You say you don't believe in God. What pray tell is this God you don't believe in? Define it. I'll bet you can't. I'll be no one in here can. I'll be no one in here thinks past the concept of the Sunday School god when they think about that which they don't believe in.

Theists can't prove the existance of god so they try to turn the burden of proof off themselves and onto atheists who claim nothing. Theists can't quite define god so they try to throw it off to the atheist yet again.
Seriously grow a fucking brain. Theists claim there is some god thing, theists are the ones to prove and define it. Atheists reject the claim, that is all. It's not down to us to prove, disprove or define anything just because you can't.

If you make a claim, it is expected that you prove it. So stop trying to throw off the burden of proof onto others. If you can't prove or define god, that's your problem.

I didn't think people could be this thick!

(August 9, 2010 at 10:07 am)Ace Wrote: I didn't think people could be this thick!

Is this your first theist?

(August 9, 2010 at 10:16 am)Paul the Human Wrote:

(August 9, 2010 at 10:07 am)Ace Wrote: I didn't think people could be this thick!

Is this your first theist?

No, it's just that I don't often bump into people who have less than five working brain cells.

Edward the theist

I dont believe in anything there is no good proof for.

No concept of god has in any been found to have REAL proof.

Some people have a lower standard of proof that they accept.

In Religulous a man prayed for rain and it rained, this was good enough for him.

But what of all the thousands of people in his vicinity? (he was in a city) it might just as well have Satan trying to make a car skid or Zeus trying impregnate a human(he was prone to turning himself into 'golden showers' for this purpose) or just a natural consequence of the world doing what the world does.

Which is more likely?

Or are you going to say the world doing what it does IS god, I have a sinking feeling that you are.

Well, I think we are now up to about 8 people, across 2 threads, TRYING to get into your head what atheism is. You still fail to understand even this simple premise.

(August 9, 2010 at 8:53 am)Minimalist Wrote: People who believe in fairy tales are not worth wasting a whole lot of time on.

I think Min is right, again. Complete waste of effort here.