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Contradictions in "rational" thought
August 10, 2010 at 11:12 pm
(This post was last modified: August 10, 2010 at 11:12 pm by RAD.)
I'm having a little trouble with all the contradictions I see in what is loosely referred to as "rational thought."
Here are 3 of the 20+ contradictions (paraphrased accurately I think) which I have identified:
Contradiction #1
Argument A: What makes you think the God of a univrse would care about a little speck like you? Don't be arrogant
Argument B: Why doesn't your God show himself to us and stop evil?
Contradiction #2
Argument A: Your God is too intolerant
Argument B: Your God saves an awful lot of stupid, arrogant people.
Contradiction #3
Argument A: Christians are so divided, I can't figure out which denomination is right
Argument B: Christians should think for themselves
Maybe you guys should get my whole list and hold a council, before the faithful figure out that maybe "rational thought" is in the mind of the beholder, and that assuming otherwise is more dangerous than becoming a Christian
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RE: Contradictions in "rational" thought
August 10, 2010 at 11:30 pm
(August 10, 2010 at 11:12 pm)RAD Wrote: I'm having a little trouble with all the contradictions I see in what is loosely referred to as "rational thought."
Here are 3 of the 20+ contradictions (paraphrased accurately I think) which I have identified: Contradictions in rational thought?
If it was a contradiction, then was it rational to begin with?
(August 10, 2010 at 11:12 pm)RAD Wrote: Contradiction #1
Argument A: What makes you think the God of a univrse would care about a little speck like you? Don't be arrogant
Argument B: Why doesn't your God show himself to us and stop evil? What does one of these things have to do with one another? I mean, it seems like two different responses to two different lines of thought.
(August 10, 2010 at 11:12 pm)RAD Wrote: Contradiction #2
Argument A: Your God is too intolerant
Argument B: Your God saves an awful lot of stupid, arrogant people. Again, it seems like you're bring up two disparate points together to form a contradiction.
(August 10, 2010 at 11:12 pm)RAD Wrote: Contradiction #3
Argument A: Christians are so divided, I can't figure out which denomination is right
Argument B: Christians should think for themselves I don't even see what either of these two arguements have to do with one another.
(August 10, 2010 at 11:12 pm)RAD Wrote: Maybe you guys should get my whole list and hold a council, before the faithful figure out that maybe "rational thought" is in the mind of the beholder, and that assuming otherwise is more dangerous than becoming a Christian I don't see how your examples lead to your conclusion. I'm not even a 100% on the arguement you're trying to make. I think you need to elaborate a great deal more so I can at least formulate an appropriate response.
My initial guess is that you're attempting to find contradictions in arguements against certain pro-theist points but the arguements dont' even seem like they're addressing the same topic.
If today you can take a thing like evolution and make it a crime to teach in the public schools, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools and next year you can make it a crime to teach it to the hustings or in the church. At the next session you may ban books and the newspapers...
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan
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RE: Contradictions in "rational" thought
August 11, 2010 at 12:04 am
Huh? These are atheist arguments that clearly demonstrate two contradictory assertions or conclusions. Hence at least one is irrational, (or both in some cases, being both logical fallacies)
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RE: Contradictions in "rational" thought
August 11, 2010 at 12:12 am
(August 11, 2010 at 12:04 am)RAD Wrote: Huh? These are atheist arguments that clearly demonstrate two contradictory assertions or conclusions. Hence at least one is irrational, (or both in some cases, being both logical fallacies)
Individually, each of the argements do not violate a logical fallacy, but assuming each pair of arguements is attempting to make the same point, then they are certainly contradictory. My point is that none of the arguements seem to be attempting to make the same point - particularly considering that the theist ideas of god and the bible are as variable as the individual and and the atheist arguements against them have to compensate for those off-kilter ideas.
Eh.. basically I'm saying that it's very easy to make those arguements seem contradictory when taken out of context, which is what seems to have happened.
If today you can take a thing like evolution and make it a crime to teach in the public schools, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools and next year you can make it a crime to teach it to the hustings or in the church. At the next session you may ban books and the newspapers...
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan
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RE: Contradictions in "rational" thought
August 11, 2010 at 5:32 am
(This post was last modified: August 11, 2010 at 5:33 am by Zen Badger.)
(August 10, 2010 at 11:12 pm)RAD Wrote: I'm having a little trouble with all the contradictions I see in what is loosely referred to as "rational thought."
Here are 3 of the 20+ contradictions (paraphrased accurately I think) which I have identified:
Contradiction #1
Argument A: What makes you think the God of a univrse would care about a little speck like you? Don't be arrogant
Argument B: Why doesn't your God show himself to us and stop evil? These are replies made to christian claims regarding a personal god and therefore not actually contradictory.
Quote:Contradiction #2
Argument A: Your God is too intolerant
Since he is prepared to send anyone who isn't prepared to kiss his arse for the rest for eternity to everlasting suffering in hell, I would call him intolerent.
Quote:Argument B: Your God saves an awful lot of stupid, arrogant people.
When has god actually saved anyone?
Quote:Contradiction #3
Argument A: Christians are so divided, I can't figure out which denomination is right
Dude, none of them are right!
Quote:Argument B: Christians should think for themselves
Maybe you guys should get my whole list and hold a council, before the faithful figure out that maybe "rational thought" is in the mind of the beholder, and that assuming otherwise is more dangerous than becoming a Christian
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RE: Contradictions in "rational" thought
August 11, 2010 at 6:10 am
Of course, this entire thread makes the assumption that all atheists make all of these arguments, thus creating some sort of contradiction. This isn't the case, and it is a generalization of atheists to say so.
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RE: Contradictions in "rational" thought
August 11, 2010 at 8:21 am
All you have done is list arguments that on their own are made to address specific points about specific arguments. They're not meant to be taken together. Every theist has an entirely different notions of what god is and does, and these are simply responses to statements made, to various arguments for God.
Here, I'll give you a real contradiction.
I had a conversation with a woman who told me that evil exists because people have free will. Yet when talking about a man who died in a car accident she said "When it's your time to go, God takes you." How is that free will if God decides when you die?
Or other statements made by Christians who argue for free will include, "God has a plan" and "Everything happens for a reason". Please explain to me those contradictions.
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RE: Contradictions in "rational" thought
August 11, 2010 at 10:45 am
All you've done is to take a few sentences, totally out of context, from different sources and then formed them in such a way as to try and prove a point.
Also, they all seem to be 'sarcastic' quips and were not actually making any claims themselves.
And this statement "Christians are so divided, I can't figure out which denomination is right" is unlikely to be asked by any atheist as we tend to think they are all wrong. Did you make this up yourself just to try to provoke us, hmmm?
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RE: Contradictions in "rational" thought
August 11, 2010 at 11:31 am
(This post was last modified: August 11, 2010 at 11:33 am by Welsh cake.)
RAD, all you've done is present arguments that compare the differing theistic and deistic philosophical beliefs, none of them address whether those beliefs are rational or not, and by that I mean, are these beliefs justifiable, logical and reasonably sound arguments or not?
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RE: Contradictions in "rational" thought
August 11, 2010 at 12:59 pm
With your same mode of reasoning, these two phrases, both true but taken out of context, can seem contradictory.
Argument 1: Darth Vader is an evil and malevolent leader.
Argument 2: Darth Vader does not exist.
Do you understand how important context is?
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