Say what you want about Jacob but don't talk shit about his cave sister (mind if I call you sister?). His cave is beautiful, all-natural in fact. It has brown and gray rocks and a river that whispers if you get really quiet. I think I put my ear to it and it said, "Tell that pretentious cunt that Jacob's cave is going to, and I DOUBLE quote this, 'shit all over you.'"

(February 16, 2015 at 10:18 am)Riketto Wrote:

(February 16, 2015 at 9:38 am)Hoopington Wrote: Riiiiggggghht, so, by that reckoning, I could say a rock has a consciousness, as it's made up of the same constituent parts.

But that would be fucking stupid.

If you consider that the rock consciousness is in a dormant stage that it is not stupid at all.
[...]

Yeah... No - it's still pretty stupid.
Using a condescending tone and "new age" platitudes, when making un-testable claims does not make those claims any more substantiated.

You can't possibly know what's the stage of consciousness of an inanimate object, since it's impossible to communicate with it. For all you know - and for all the difference that it makes - the rock is just a rock.
You can personify it all you want, call it "sleeping", "autistic", or "shy", but at the end of the day - it's all in your head unless you can find a damn good way to prove it to be otherwise. Extraordinary claims and all that jazz...

And no - calling people "idiot" does not constitute a proof.

Quote: Yeah... No - it's still pretty stupid. 

It is. Slightly alarming that this even needs to be said

(February 16, 2015 at 9:55 am)Riketto Wrote: Just read my previous post and tell me whether the universal body can exist without a mind and a consciousness.

According to you the one cannot function without the other. You didn't address whether the body can exist without a mind or consciousness ("A body ... [is composed] also of mind and consciousness").

Much of what you said was phrased in rhetorical questions, so even that is uncertain.

(February 16, 2015 at 9:55 am)Riketto Wrote: He left his body years ago but i believe that the consciousness is still alive and well so to me Sarkar does have total peace of mind although Sarkar body doesn't exist anymore.

And exactly how do you know that he did/does have total peace of mind?

(February 16, 2015 at 9:29 am)Riketto Wrote:

(February 15, 2015 at 1:35 pm)Surgenator Wrote: You sound reasonable. However, I witness how short this reasonable state will last. Yet you still misunderstand the analogy. The male bird showing off his nest is analogous to people here pointing to evidence. You're the blind bird who cannot witness the awesome of it. You can only hear about it but cannot comprehend the whole of it. That is the meaning of the blind bird analogy.

And you claim that you got evidence?
Are you serious surgen?
You can't even understand how the universal system works so what evidence can you ever offer?
Can a body function without the head?
Not even a zombie could go around without a head in place.
The reason why i keep on saying that well before you try to know the external reality you should try to know yourself.
Just look at yourself before you look externally.
The universe function the same way as your body.
A body is not composed only of matter, water, energy, air a space to contain the whole but also of mind and consciousness.
The universe is also composed of matter, water, light, air and space but could really function without a mind and a consciousness?
If our body can not function without a mind and consciousness why the universe could?
Both entity are composed of the same elements so why one can not function without a mind and consciousness and the other doesn't need mind and consciousness.
You never thought about it surgen, didn't you mate?

It only took one post to go back to your delusions. This is why the dirty germophobe is the better analogy of you.

(February 16, 2015 at 10:58 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote:

(February 16, 2015 at 10:18 am)Riketto Wrote: If you consider that the rock consciousness is in a dormant stage that it is not stupid at all.
[...]

Yeah... No - it's still pretty stupid.
Using a condescending tone and "new age" platitudes, when making un-testable claims does not make those claims any more substantiated. You can't possibly know what's the stage of consciousness of an inanimate object, since it's impossible to communicate with it. For all you know - and for all the difference that it makes - the rock is just a rock.
You can personify it all you want, call it "sleeping", "autistic", or "shy", but at the end of the day - it's all in your head unless you can find a damn good way to prove it to be otherwise. Extraordinary claims and all that jazz...
And no - calling people "idiot" does not constitute a proof.

.........making un-testable claims.............
Darwin did observe how animals behave and change and from there he draw his conclusion.
Is this un-testable claim?
Anybody can observe the mineral world and draw conclusion.
Anybody can draw conclusion from the fact that some mineral look like dead while other like uranium can emit energy.
But what's the point talking with a brick wall.

---

(February 16, 2015 at 1:10 pm)rasetsu Wrote:

(February 16, 2015 at 9:55 am)Riketto Wrote: Just read my previous post and tell me whether the universal body can exist without a mind and a consciousness.

According to you the one cannot function without the other. You didn't address whether the body can exist without a mind or consciousness ("A body ... [is composed] also of mind and consciousness").

Much of what you said was phrased in rhetorical questions, so even that is uncertain.

So, instead of answering my question you come up with more questions.
Can't you make it more simple and say whether the universe can exist without a controlling mind and consciousness or not?

(February 16, 2015 at 9:55 am)Riketto Wrote: He left his body years ago but i believe that the consciousness is still alive and well so to me Sarkar does have total peace of mind although Sarkar body doesn't exist anymore.

Quote:And exactly how do you know that he did/does have total peace of mind?

Because alive physically or alive consciousness he still guide me towards the right path day after day.
I experience no differences whatsoever now or in the past when he was inside a body.

---

(February 16, 2015 at 1:33 pm)Surgenator Wrote:

(February 16, 2015 at 9:29 am)Riketto Wrote: And you claim that you got evidence?
Are you serious surgen?
You can't even understand how the universal system works so what evidence can you ever offer?
Can a body function without the head?
Not even a zombie could go around without a head in place.
The reason why i keep on saying that well before you try to know the external reality you should try to know yourself.
Just look at yourself before you look externally.
The universe function the same way as your body.
A body is not composed only of matter, water, energy, air a space to contain the whole but also of mind and consciousness.
The universe is also composed of matter, water, light, air and space but could really function without a mind and a consciousness?
If our body can not function without a mind and consciousness why the universe could?
Both entity are composed of the same elements so why one can not function without a mind and consciousness and the other doesn't need mind and consciousness.
You never thought about it surgen, didn't you mate?

It only took one post to go back to your delusions. This is why the dirty germophobe is the better analogy of you.

You like rasu can not answer my question.
I guess it is hard to digest this one.

(February 17, 2015 at 3:46 am)Riketto Wrote:

(February 16, 2015 at 1:10 pm)rasetsu Wrote: According to you the one cannot function without the other. You didn't address whether the body can exist without a mind or consciousness ("A body ... [is composed] also of mind and consciousness").

Much of what you said was phrased in rhetorical questions, so even that is uncertain.

So, instead of answering my question you come up with more questions.
Can't you make it more simple and say whether the universe can exist without a controlling mind and consciousness or not?

Not addressed to me but I can tell you I don't know what the answer to your question may be, Rik. I don't seem to be in any position from which to verify if there is or isn't a controlling mind which makes the universe possible. To be aware of a universe as such requires consciousness. But even if we agree to say it is consciousness which creates the universe as an object of my awareness, that doesn't automatically confer any control over the universe to the consciousness. So I see no way to answer your question.

(February 17, 2015 at 3:46 am)Riketto Wrote:

(February 16, 2015 at 1:33 pm)Surgenator Wrote: It only took one post to go back to your delusions. This is why the dirty germophobe is the better analogy of you.

You like rasu can not answer my question.
I guess it is hard to digest this one.

Your questions start of with incorrect premises. There like "when did you stop beating your wife" questions. They make unjustified assumptions. Hence, your questions are just stupid.

(February 17, 2015 at 3:46 am)Riketto Wrote:

(February 16, 2015 at 1:10 pm)rasetsu Wrote: According to you the one cannot function without the other. You didn't address whether the body can exist without a mind or consciousness ("A body ... [is composed] also of mind and consciousness").

Much of what you said was phrased in rhetorical questions, so even that is uncertain.

So, instead of answering my question you come up with more questions.

I answered your question exactly as posed to me. Don't accuse me of not answering when I did answer. What you just said was a lie.

(February 17, 2015 at 3:46 am)Riketto Wrote: Can't you make it more simple and say whether the universe can exist without a controlling mind and consciousness or not?

If you ask me whether I believe there is a controlling consciousness, I would say yes. But you asked me to answer according to your previous post — and that subject didn't come up in your previous post.

---

(February 17, 2015 at 3:46 am)Riketto Wrote:

(February 16, 2015 at 9:55 am)Riketto Wrote: He left his body years ago but i believe that the consciousness is still alive and well so to me Sarkar does have total peace of mind although Sarkar body doesn't exist anymore.

Quote:And exactly how do you know that he did/does have total peace of mind?

Because alive physically or alive consciousness he still guide me towards the right path day after day.
I experience no differences whatsoever now or in the past when he was inside a body.

How do you know it is the right path if you haven't reached your destination?

(February 17, 2015 at 1:33 pm)Surgenator Wrote:

(February 17, 2015 at 3:46 am)Riketto Wrote: You like rasu can not answer my question.
I guess it is hard to digest this one.

Your questions start of with incorrect premises. There like "when did you stop beating your wife" questions. They make unjustified assumptions. Hence, your questions are just stupid.

I can not see any incorrect premises.
The question is very very simple.
It say..............DO YOU THINK THAT THE UNIVERSE CAN EXIST WITHOUT A MIND & CONSCIOUSNESS OR NOT?
Is this too intellectual or hard to understand?

---

(February 17, 2015 at 1:39 pm)rasetsu Wrote: I answered your question exactly as posed to me. Don't accuse me of not answering when I did answer. What you just said was a lie.
and..........If you ask me whether I believe there is a controlling consciousness, I would say yes. But you asked me to answer according to your previous post — and that subject didn't come up in your previous post.

Why would you care about my previous post.
Forget about it for a second or two.
Now the plane already took off and we left the place where we were before.
Ok. now that you answered the question i would like to know who may be this controlling consciousness.
Anybody other than God?

Quote:How do you know it is the right path if you haven't reached your destination

Because it works and anything that works well it is likely to lead to some nice place.
But again you may be correct.
It just remind me of the sheep that at the end are taken to the abattoir by the sheppard that they trusted.
Gee, yogini for Christ sake why the hell you try to be so pessimistic all the time?

---

(February 17, 2015 at 11:00 am)whateverist Wrote:

(February 17, 2015 at 3:46 am)Riketto Wrote: So, instead of answering my question you come up with more questions.
Can't you make it more simple and say whether the universe can exist without a controlling mind and consciousness or not?

Not addressed to me but I can tell you I don't know what the answer to your question may be, Rik. I don't seem to be in any position from which to verify if there is or isn't a controlling mind which makes the universe possible. To be aware of a universe as such requires consciousness. But even if we agree to say it is consciousness which creates the universe as an object of my awareness, that doesn't automatically confer any control over the universe to the consciousness. So I see no way to answer your question.

Very good whatever.
As you can see i rewarded you with one of my special kudo that i rarely give.
My kudos are worth hundreds of normal kudos.
Why i did gave you the kudo?
Not because i agree with your idea but because unlike other you answered without arguing about my intentions.
My idea of a body without a mind-consciousness doesn't make any sense at all that is why i asked whether it make any sense to you guys.
In the past i came across atheists which were saying that the universe doesn't need any controlling mind as it can run by itself like as it could follow the laws of thermodynamics.
But again the question remain as to started the process in the first place.