I'm just glad we have Obama to clarify for us what "true" Islam is.

(February 18, 2015 at 8:32 am)mralstoner Wrote: His first allegiance is to Muslims, not to America.

Well that's just retarded.

I find anything mralstoner says hard to look at with anything but raised eyebrows and general annoyance after his performance in that thread supporting putting Muslims in camps.

(February 18, 2015 at 9:40 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: I find anything mralstoner says hard to look at with anything but raised eyebrows and general annoyance after his performance in that thread supporting putting Muslims in camps.

Yeah, this post here is pretty nutty.

Politics and more specifically - political correctness is what makes some people gloss over the teachings of Islam and treat Muslim extremists as if they came from nowhere. The truth may be, that given enough time - Islam could reform itself and become far less aggressive and overall fundamentalist than it is now, just as other religions did. The problem is - in the nuclear era we can't afford to wait another few hundred years for the "moderate" Muslims to understand, that throwing rocks at defenseless women - for whatever reason, I don't care if they sucked Satan's d**k - is un-acceptable and freedom of speech is non-negotiable.

Moderate Muslims are way more fanatical, than most fundamentalist Jews and Christians - who at the very least accepted the fact, that they can not stone people in public for religion-related offenses, even if they secretly want to. Judeo-christian scriptures have also been "massaged", by means of new translations and interpretations, to eradicate the idea of a holy war, while jihad is still a staple of muslim faith, even if most followers don't act on it.

The most important question - the way I see it - is what will those moderates do, if/when islamic extremists, like IS gain the upper hand, over the western world. Will they oppose their fanatical minority and stop jihad from continuing, in the name of modern humanist values, against the word of Quran? Will they remain silent and passive and let atrocities continue? Or will they decide that there's no need for pretense anymore and join in the war effort, to earn their glory in the eyes of allah?

Before WWII there were plenty of "moderate" antisemites and nationalists all over Europe. They did not kill Jews themselves, but they did not like them and would be glad to get rid of them. Consequently, when fascist extremists gained control over most of Europe, their job of exterminating Jews was so much easier, because while most moderate antisemites wouldn't commit violent acts themselves - they had very few qualms about turning a blind eye to the "Final Solution", turning people of jewish ancestry over to the german forces and taking possessions of the victims. Even now I know personally many Christians in Eastern Europe, who say - privately - that Holocaust was a good thing and that Jews needed to be "dealt with".

My point is - moderates are opportunistic and can be swayed one way or the other. And I find it hard to imagine, that people, who have no mercy on their own mothers and sisters, when they stray from allah's way, will be willing to risk their lives and salvation for "infidels".

Just out of interest, if I went up to a "moderate" Muslim in a civilized country, and waved about the pictures of Mohammed I'd drawn, what do you think the reaction would be? Obviously I would never be such a dick as to do this, but I wonder what level of offense, or action, it would provoke? Would it be laughed off? I don't have enough experience with Muslims to have any idea.

(February 18, 2015 at 10:25 am)robvalue Wrote: Just out of interest, if I went up to a "moderate" Muslim in a civilized country, and waved about the pictures of Mohammed I'd drawn, what do you think the reaction would be? Obviously I would never be such a dick as to do this, but I wonder what level of offense, or action, it would provoke? Would it be laughed off? I don't have enough experience with Muslims to have any idea.

I have a friend who is Muslim. If she knew you she might playfully pretend to murder you (because her sense of humor is awesome and always a bit on the dark side) for strangers she'd probably call you an idiot and keep walking.

(February 18, 2015 at 10:25 am)robvalue Wrote: Just out of interest, if I went up to a "moderate" Muslim in a civilized country, and waved about the pictures of Mohammed I'd drawn, what do you think the reaction would be? Obviously I would never be such a dick as to do this, but I wonder what level of offense, or action, it would provoke? Would it be laughed off? I don't have enough experience with Muslims to have any idea.

I've worked and currently work with many Muslims. I've never seen one "laugh off" anything related to their religion. I've never personally tested their reaction to blatant disrespect of their religion, but it seems they are completely un-movable when it comes to their customs and beliefs. I'm talking - people who won't speak to, or even acknowledge a european woman at work (in Europe, nonetheless), because she has uncovered head and is therefore - a whore.
And any discussion about religious matters with most of them is completely counter-productive. They get angry even when Christians call Jesus "son of God" in their presence. Which is kind of funny, but still pretty terrifying. In fact - isn't that the reason Asia Bibi is about to be killed in Pakistan?