Where did you get your dictionary??


Secular:

•Denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis.
•Not subject to or bound by religious rule

A secular government is simply a government that doesn't have or promote any religion.

(February 28, 2015 at 4:07 pm)abaris Wrote:

(February 28, 2015 at 3:20 pm)Godschild Wrote: if it were secular as you say it would deal with religions in a disgraceful way, it doesn't do that.

Why am I not surprised that you don't have any clue what secularsm means.

Could be because you don't when the truth of it is pointed out.

GC

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(February 28, 2015 at 4:13 pm)robvalue Wrote: I could post the definition of secularism right now, and 5 minutes later someone would still be equating it with atheism, or evolution or christ knows what.

I did not associate it with anything other than to be anti-religious, I set it out by it's self.

GC

Hey GC, some history for you. Secularism as normatively defined in the west was invented by your Protestant religious predecessors in the 17th century.

Freedom of and from religion is its central aim in the public sphere. It is by definition not anti-religious unless you're a person who wants to invent an imagined position against something he doesn't understand and doesn't care to. It seeks to ensure that the state is neutral towards religious beliefs, not against them.

Look up pillars of Westphalia, look up cuius regio eius religio, look up the 30 years war, then do some fucking research for once in your life and chart the evolution of secular structures implemented in western states (including the US).

Or continue to talk nonsense and be a laughing stock. Nobody is bothered either way.

No room for religion in a secular society?

One of the main points of secularism is to protect everyone's right to practice their own religion, to stop the persecution of the less "popular" ones.

And assuming you're in the US, you live in a (supposedly) secular country.

You can have a secular country where everyone is religious.

(March 2, 2015 at 4:43 am)robvalue Wrote: No room for religion in a secular society?

One of the main points of secularism is to protect everyone's right to practice their own religion, to stop the persecution of the less "popular" ones.

And assuming you're in the US, you live in a (supposedly) secular country.

You can have a secular country where everyone is religious.

If religions are failing in secular states (like mainstream Chrisitan denominations in the UK), proponents of those religions are often quick to blame secularism. In reality however those proponents continually miss the point of why their religion's are failing, specifically their own inadequacies when it comes to convincing people (the younger generations) that their beliefs have something to offer. Whereas in generations past you had a state saying 'you must be x religion and you must go to x place of worship', now it's a free market place of ideas.

Children are no longer told 'you must be this religion' but are instead left increasingly to think for themselves. Religious affiliation taking a nosedive is just the awesome side effect.

The first rule of religions is to kill the person who doesn't believe in your religious delusions. Remember how Cain whacked Able upside his head? And things went downhill from there.

(March 2, 2015 at 4:08 am)Pandæmonium Wrote: Hey GC, some history for you. Secularism as normatively defined in the west was invented by your Protestant religious predecessors in the 17th century.

Freedom of and from religion is its central aim in the public sphere. It is by definition not anti-religious unless you're a person who wants to invent an imagined position against something he doesn't understand and doesn't care to. It seeks to ensure that the state is neutral towards religious beliefs, not against them.

Look up pillars of Westphalia, look up cuius regio eius religio, look up the 30 years war, then do some fucking research for once in your life and chart the evolution of secular structures implemented in western states (including the US).

Or continue to talk nonsense and be a laughing stock. Nobody is bothered either way.

Actually it was defined and used by the Ancient Greeks, (probably used much earlier however) though it was adopted by the 17th Century Protestants when it became politically expedient. Their claim to have invented it is... dishonest, though somewhat unsurprising...

(March 2, 2015 at 1:56 am)Godschild Wrote:

(February 28, 2015 at 4:06 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: I served in defense of it, you fuckstain, so don't lecture me about that. You obviously need to read the fucking dictionary.

Seems to me you haven't the respect it affords to all peoples, I wasn't lecturing you, I just stated what the Constitution does for all, idiot.

GC

His point, Your Denseness, is that he swore an oath to defend that Constitution. Having you write, "Many good men and women have died in defense of it, you should learn to have respect for it", after his honorable service, is insulting -- especially considering that you never respected it so much as to put your own ass on the line, unlike AFTT. You are content to wave the glory of others around in support of your insult ... and unlike him, you cannot point to your own actions.

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(March 2, 2015 at 4:43 am)robvalue Wrote: You can have a secular country where everyone is religious.

... and you can have a state with a state religion where the society itself is still secular.

(March 4, 2015 at 10:30 am)Mr Greene Wrote:

(March 2, 2015 at 4:08 am)Pandæmonium Wrote: Hey GC, some history for you. Secularism as normatively defined in the west was invented by your Protestant religious predecessors in the 17th century.

Freedom of and from religion is its central aim in the public sphere. It is by definition not anti-religious unless you're a person who wants to invent an imagined position against something he doesn't understand and doesn't care to. It seeks to ensure that the state is neutral towards religious beliefs, not against them.

Look up pillars of Westphalia, look up cuius regio eius religio, look up the 30 years war, then do some fucking research for once in your life and chart the evolution of secular structures implemented in western states (including the US).

Or continue to talk nonsense and be a laughing stock. Nobody is bothered either way.

Actually it was defined and used by the Ancient Greeks, (probably used much earlier however) though it was adopted by the 17th Century Protestants when it became politically expedient. Their claim to have invented it is... dishonest, though somewhat unsurprising...

The Westphalia variant was unique simply because of the religious demographics and conflicts that were occurring in the 17th century.

The secularism we see today is 100% a result of Westphalia and so it is still accurate I think to say the pillars of modern secularism were invented by the protestants of the day. Of course originally it was simply to remove papal authority over the state. It's since evolved towards the concept of neutrality.