I had a few women to break my heart, yet, none has driven me to insanity, I did that to myself

(January 1, 2015 at 11:47 pm)ketameankitty Wrote: I understand these anti-feminists usually support the efforts of feminists in the past, and even the present. After all, TheAmazingAtheist paints his fingernails...if it wasn't for modern feminism, that would be unacceptable. I know that these anti-feminists just get their panties in a knot when they watch videos by extremists like Anita Sarkeesian, you know, that woman that no one likes, save for her following of maybe...40,000 people? Maybe? If that?

Anita Sarkeesian as your big bogey-person example of feminism-derailed? I beg to differ.

When I read your bogey-person description of her, I thought you were talking about a TERF, or some *other* brand of people who think they're feminists but are too logic-impaired to really do much to promote *anything* truly-progressive --- including feminism.

So I read up on her ---- and what I found could not have possibly been more different than what I expected based on your description. Seriously ---- she is analyzing sexist messages that are embedded in video games!!

Oh - but you say - that's just games. Playing those games doesn't mean that people think all women fit those stereotypes or aught to. You think the majority of Homo sapiens are motivated primarily by rationality and logic? The sad fact is ---- most people aren't ---- and the messages fed to them through entertainment ---- be they movies, TV shows, or yes, even video games --- that has a strong impact on the attitudes they bring with them into the real world.

And when that great power to have a strong impact on societal attitudes is used (whether deliberately or by mindlessly fallowing the flow-of-market) to promulgate attitudes that marginalize a group that needs to be de-marginalized that is a problem ---- and someone who analyzes these entertainment sources to all-out such misuses is doing a great service to society.

When it comes down to it, modern day feminism in the US is a complete joke. Look the US isn't perfect, and another place being worse by comparison does not automatically excuse the United States for whatever oppression the women here DO experience... But if you think women are oppressed in America, I would highly suggest you do some research about how women are treated in other parts of the world. Are there assholes out there? Sure. Misogynists? Absolutely. But are women as a whole oppressed here in the states? I really have a hard time answering yes to that question.

I love women. I love hanging around women, I love having sex with women, shit I'd rather hang out with a group of girls then a group of guys. Guys are fucking boring. They all want to one up one another and have a pissing contest over everything.

And yes I'm making a generalization here, but you get the point.

The problem here is, the atheist community you seem to be talking about here is usually attacking the extremist feminazis, not your every day feminist. And quite honestly I usually agree. Feminazis are f$*#@$# insane.

This ridiculers argument with men and women sickens me, women can be real very manipulate and men can be jerks, but none are better than the other, both can be as bad as the other, so get over it.

(March 1, 2015 at 2:02 am)Delysid Wrote: When it comes down to it, modern day feminism in the US is a complete joke. Look the US isn't perfect, and another place being worse by comparison does not automatically excuse the United States for whatever oppression the women here DO experience... But if you think women are oppressed in America, I would highly suggest you do some research about how women are treated in other parts of the world. Are there assholes out there? Sure. Misogynists? Absolutely. But are women as a whole oppressed here in the states? I really have a hard time answering yes to that question.

At what point do you decide that feminism isn't required any more?

When women are paid almost as much as men yet still hit a glass ceiling?

When women are allowed to do menial work but are paid a pittance and have no prospect of promotion?

When women are allowed to vote?

When women have basic rights as human beings?

Or when there is complete unequivocal gender equality for both sexes?

Someone today may pick an arbitrary point on the sliding scale of gender equality, but it's not likely to be the same point chosen by their forebears or their children.

It's true that different countries are at different stages along the same scale but the intended destination is the same. It's also worth noting that it's not a one-off journey. Any progress that has been made also needs to be maintained. Some countries do start sliding backwards again.

Fuck Feminism

(March 1, 2015 at 6:41 am)I_am_not_mafia Wrote: It's true that different countries are at different stages along the same scale but the intended destination is the same. It's also worth noting that it's not a one-off journey. Any progress that has been made also needs to be maintained. Some countries do start sliding backwards again.

Yes --- and furthermore --- just because much progress has been made and there are other countries further behind this one --- all that does not mean that there isn't still much progress *remaining* to be made.

Modern Feminism to me has always seemed like a bunch of bullshit identity politics. You also speak of feminism as "the" movement that's trying to defend your reproductive rights and all that stuff, when it's not THE only one, we need to drop all this gender bullshit and start focusing on better human rights in general. Yeah feminists are protecting your rights, but a lot of them also want to hammer down on other people's rights.

You also have a total misunderstanding of the influence people like Anita Sarkeesian's have, her and many other rad fems like her are all over the mainstream media, i'm from the UK and their articles are plastered all over the Newspapers and online sites, and Sarkeesian has been on Sky News which is a massive TV news station over here, all because the Mainstream media are obviously going out of their way to not offend people, the same think you think the Atheist community should do.

In a sense you want to start trying to regulate atheism "If atheists want to gain acceptance, see religious laws get removed, and someday live in a world where dogma doesn't exist, we need power. And power comes in number.

Feminists (not the extremists) are a heftily sized group of people that atheists should be working to attract, not piss off"

You could use exactly the same argument to say Atheists should be polite to Muslims or Christians to attract them in, you also go on to say that most Feminists are Irreligious anyway, so obviously they aren't being detracted by Atheism, Atheists should come to atheism because they see it as the truth, and if they let things like political views of other atheists detract them from Atheism (into becoming what exactly, agnostic?) then they probably shouldn't be an Atheist anyway.

You can't hold it against TJ and Jaclyn Glenn for making the videos either, because both make money off their Youtube accounts, so they're gonna make videos that generate traffic, and at this point in time "Anti-feminist" material is pretty popular because a lot of feminists are going around whining about everything and accusing random people of being rape supporters. So to assume TJ's motives are for anything but the $$$ is wrong imo.

Oh and I also don't see how you can say there's "so much anti-feminism" in the Atheist community, your only cited sources of anti-feminism in the Atheist community are TJ and Jaclyyn Glenn, that's a grand total of 2, and we don't know for sure the Religious views of the people that watch and support these videos, maybe they're Religious people that pop over for the anti-feminist videos and that's where the extra views come from. I'd say it's a safe bet there's a lot less anti-feminism in the Atheist community than a LOT of theistic ones.

(March 1, 2015 at 6:41 am)I_am_not_mafia Wrote: At what point do you decide that feminism isn't required any more?

When women are paid almost as much as men yet still hit a glass ceiling?

When women are allowed to do menial work but are paid a pittance and have no prospect of promotion?

When women are allowed to vote?

When women have basic rights as human beings?

Or when there is complete unequivocal gender equality for both sexes?

Someone today may pick an arbitrary point on the sliding scale of gender equality, but it's not likely to be the same point chosen by their forebears or their children.

It's true that different countries are at different stages along the same scale but the intended destination is the same. It's also worth noting that it's not a one-off journey. Any progress that has been made also needs to be maintained. Some countries do start sliding backwards again.

Please answer your own question. Just so I can be clear on where you think feminism is needed here in the states. Please explain to me what issues can be addressed by a large scale feminist movement as opposed to some other strategy?

Feminists gets straw manned the same way atheists against religious supremacy get it. Feminists like atheists are a varied group.

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(March 1, 2015 at 1:00 pm)TheMessiah Wrote: Fuck Feminism

Grow up.