(March 13, 2015 at 6:03 am)Ben Davis Wrote:

(March 12, 2015 at 6:06 pm)Dystopia Wrote:

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I really hate to say this on AF but that is the left wing liberal speech about Islam

I'm a left-wing liberal. I don't think these things. Be careful of generalisations

I was mostly kidding, though at least in my country most of the political left is in favour of Islam and banning "hate speech" about Islam. Look Ben, a generalization would be assuming that all left wing liberals are pro being politically correct of Islam, but it isn't if I'm saying that most of them are very defensive of Muslims for being a minority, something that is true. In Europe, left politicians blame Charlie Hebdo on the failure of European governments to integrate Muslims in society. I don't think liberals in AF are a good sample of liberals (left or right wing) because most liberals are really tolerant of religion

Maybe, if that means that I won't say anything bad about Islam because I have a family.

(March 13, 2015 at 9:30 am)Dystopia Wrote:

(March 13, 2015 at 6:03 am)Ben Davis Wrote: I'm a left-wing liberal. I don't think these things. Be careful of generalisations

I was mostly kidding, though at least in my country most of the political left is in favour of Islam and banning "hate speech" about Islam. Look Ben, a generalization would be assuming that all left wing liberals are pro being politically correct of Islam, but it isn't if I'm saying that most of them are very defensive of Muslims for being a minority, something that is true. In Europe, left politicians blame Charlie Hebdo on the failure of European governments to integrate Muslims in society. I don't think liberals in AF are a good sample of liberals (left or right wing) because most liberals are really tolerant of religion

I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek too. 'Many a truth spoken in jest' and all that. Sure, there are liberals who hold the position you're claiming but there are plenty who don't. Here in the UK, liberals are generally tolerant of people not ideologies. For example, our political left publically blamed the terrorists and their version of Islam for the CH shootings; even the MCB and ISB did't try to deflect the heat with claims that CH brought it on themselves. In counter-point to that is Sweden's recent legislation banning certain types of criticism of Islam (under the guise of counter-anti-immigration laws).

(March 13, 2015 at 10:07 am)Ben Davis Wrote:

(March 13, 2015 at 9:30 am)Dystopia Wrote: I was mostly kidding, though at least in my country most of the political left is in favour of Islam and banning "hate speech" about Islam. Look Ben, a generalization would be assuming that all left wing liberals are pro being politically correct of Islam, but it isn't if I'm saying that most of them are very defensive of Muslims for being a minority, something that is true. In Europe, left politicians blame Charlie Hebdo on the failure of European governments to integrate Muslims in society. I don't think liberals in AF are a good sample of liberals (left or right wing) because most liberals are really tolerant of religion

I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek too. 'Many a truth spoken in jest' and all that. Sure, there are liberals who hold the position you're claiming but there are plenty who don't. Here in the UK, liberals are generally tolerant of people not ideologies. For example, our political left publically blamed the terrorists and their version of Islam for the CH shootings; even the MCB and ISB did't try to deflect the heat with claims that CH brought it on themselves. In counter-point to that is Sweden's recent legislation banning certain types of criticism of Islam (under the guise of counter-anti-immigration laws).

Indeed Sweden is a bad example, a politician was arrested a few years ago for speaking "badly" about immigrants.

Politicians do what's convenient, your political left probably wants votes from both moderate Muslim immigrants and native English people. Did they admit that religion causes harm, or did they take the Obama route of "Religion doesn't kill, people and terrorism kill"?

The political left in Portugal did the same, but they bolded the fact terrorists are a super tiny tiny minority and that Islam is not to blame because it's peaceful.

(March 13, 2015 at 10:39 am)Dystopia Wrote: Did they admit that religion causes harm, or did they take the Obama route of "Religion doesn't kill, people and terrorism kill"?

Neither. Milliband was specific: he blamed the terrorists and 'their interpretation of Islam'. That was the right thing to do, IMO: he implied that their religion was part of the cause and he didn't claim that it was 'warped' or 'not true Islam' but he separated that cause from the type of Islam which is typically practiced in the UK (a more moderate, tolerant, 'enlightened' version). His reasons for doing so were almost certainly politically motivated (keeping as many muslims/non-muslims on-side as possible for the sake of votes) by providing a 'them & us' scenario but they were also accurate.

(March 12, 2015 at 10:56 am)Marsellus Wallace Wrote: Are you an Islamophobe?

Coming for a guy who used to be a muslim for 20 fucking years : THE HELL I AM. and I wish people cut the politically-correct-bullshit and be Islamophobic and stop that stupid religion from doing more damage.

I'd say we agree.

I am interested in Arabic culture but Islam is an unreasonable ideology. You only have to read the Qu'ran and Ahadith in order to recognize that it isn't a religion of peace.

(March 13, 2015 at 11:07 am)GermanAtheist Wrote: I am interested in Arabic culture but Islam is an unreasonable ideology. You only have to read the Qu'ran and Ahadith in order to recognize that it isn't a religion of peace.

Just to add to your point, Islam also includes far more members than just Arabs. There are those who call criticism of Islam to be "racist", to which I say, "against whom?" Persians certain do not consider themselves to be "Arabic" (and they'll understandably get irritated if you make that mistake). Neither to North Africans. Eastern Asian Muslims like Uighurs and Indonesians are certainly not Arabic. Neither are Bosnians or Chechens.

It's ironic but those who defend the charge of "racism", insisting that Arab culture and Islam are inseparably intertwined, is itself racist. Why should I assume that a given Arab I meet is Muslim any more than I assume a Hispanic is Catholic?

Lest anyone think I'm charging at windmills when I say there are people who seriously defend the position that "you can't distinguish Islam from race" he's an example of some pig-headed demagogues:




You might be able to see my scathing review of this video in their comment section. To their credit, they haven't deleted it.

DP, additionally there's native Europeans and even American citizens (white) that convert to Islam so there's no guarantee that race is relevant.

I think the racist part is a reference to "brown-skinned" people. It's true that some have been killed for looking like Muslims but weren't, I'm not excusing racist behaviour, but I think it's important to be able to criticize without being called a racist. If Muslims were white I would criticize them equally.

(March 13, 2015 at 11:07 am)GermanAtheist Wrote: I am interested in Arabic culture but Islam is an unreasonable ideology. You only have to read the Qu'ran and Ahadith in order to recognize that it isn't a religion of peace.

Pre-Islam, the Arabic people practiced Judaism and also paganism. Then, there was a split when Islam was created, and the core text of the Qu'ran is more or less based on the bible. That is why there are so many things like criminal laws, dietary laws are so similar in both Judaism and Islam. However, unlike Islam, the Jewish people no longer stone people to death or behead. One thing I like about the sectarian split in Islam is the dietary laws. In Sunni Islam, muslims are allowed to eat crustaceans, however, in Shia Islam, they are considered Haram.

From the Torah:

Quote:Of the things that are in the waters, you may eat anything that has fins and scales. Lev. 11:9; Deut. 14:9. Thus, shellfish such as lobsters, oysters, shrimp, clams and crabs are all forbidden. Fish like tuna, carp, salmon and herring are all permitted.