This used to be a hot button issue for me about 7 and a half years ago, but I moved past it.

As a theist, I would urge God to not only have mercy on my loved ones but all humanity even including the likes of Hitler....this is referenced in one of the apocryphal Biblical books.

(April 15, 2015 at 3:37 am)abaris Wrote: Godchild answered that one in a similar discussion some time ago. According to him there's some divine lobotomy or brain amputation in stock for those who go to heaven. They will only have happy feelings and therefore not even remember their child. At least that's what I got from his reply back then.

I'm guessing this is where that came from:

Revelation 21
 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

and

8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

(April 15, 2015 at 10:08 pm)Polaris Wrote: This used to be a hot button issue for me about 7 and a half years ago, but I moved past it.

As a theist, I would urge God to not only have mercy on my loved ones but all humanity even including the likes of Hitler....this is referenced in one of the apocryphal Biblical books.

But god of the bible is not forgiving or even less merciful unless you ask for mercy and even still.... he woudn't show it. 

(April 15, 2015 at 9:44 pm)Iroscato Wrote:

(April 15, 2015 at 3:44 pm)wallym Wrote: For many of us, the idea of 'good' goes out the window when God does.  I'd be a stupendous person if I knew God existed.  I instead know he doesn't exist, so I stick with my own best interests instead.  

So this idea of "Just be good, and it'll work itself out" is a pretty lame attempt at inclusion, since it leaves out a bunch of people living 'badly' in a rationale way because God was dopey in his sales pitch.

So...wait.
You're saying you're a dick because you know there is no God? That's like a weird mirror image of theist sociopaths are only good because they believe their god is watching. How odd.

I do have what we casually think of as sociopathic tendencies.  I don't care about most other people.  I could pretend, I suppose, but I could't make myself care about some random person any more than I could decide to believe in God.  

If tomorrow God came down from the heavens, or wherever he hangs out and said "Just checking in.  I'm real btw.  Try to love eachother,"  I could find value in others through such a being.  

I think the idea of it being good because of some threat from God, rather than his saying people have value is an idea with authority is an important distinction.

As it relates to this topic, though, it's a clear dichotomy in how I behave. So the idea that "Just be good (according to general sentiment), and it'll all be cool" isn't the greatest situation for people like me.

How to save your child from hell never teach your kids about god and jesus the end.

(April 15, 2015 at 11:28 pm)dyresand Wrote:

(April 15, 2015 at 10:08 pm)Polaris Wrote: This used to be a hot button issue for me about 7 and a half years ago, but I moved past it.

As a theist, I would urge God to not only have mercy on my loved ones but all humanity even including the likes of Hitler....this is referenced in one of the apocryphal Biblical books.

But god of the bible is not forgiving or even less merciful unless you ask for mercy and even still.... he woudn't show it. 

Exodus 32

“I have seen these people,” the Lord said to Moses, “and they are a stiff-necked people. Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them. Then I will make you into a great nation.” But Moses sought the favor of the Lord his God. “Lord,” he said, “why should your anger burn against your people, whom you brought out of Egypt with great power and a mighty hand? Why should the Egyptians say, ‘It was with evil intent that he brought them out, to kill them in the mountains and to wipe them off the face of the earth’? Turn from your fierce anger; relent and do not bring disaster on your people. Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.’” Then the Lord relented and did not bring on his people the disaster he had threatened.

You reckon that's forgiveness or mercy...not annihilating people?  Specifically due to the "what would the neighbors say" argument? Awfully low bar you've got there.

(April 16, 2015 at 7:21 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You reckon that's forgiveness or mercy...not annihilating people?  Specifically due to the "what would the neighbors say" argument?  Awfully low bar you've got there.

Yet, sadly, a much higher bar than the rest of the world at that time.

(April 16, 2015 at 10:53 am)wallym Wrote: I do have what we casually think of as sociopathic tendencies.  I don't care about most other people.  I could pretend, I suppose, but I could't make myself care about some random person any more than I could decide to believe in God.  

If tomorrow God came down from the heavens, or wherever he hangs out and said "Just checking in.  I'm real btw.  Try to love eachother,"  I could find value in others through such a being.  

I think the idea of it being good because of some threat from God, rather than his saying people have value is an idea with authority is an important distinction.

As it relates to this topic, though, it's a clear dichotomy in how I behave.  So the idea that "Just be good (according to general sentiment), and it'll all be cool" isn't the greatest situation for people like me.

That's a long-winded way to say, "I'm a selfish prick and only value others if it affects me somehow."

It's honest, though, I'll give you that.

(April 16, 2015 at 7:31 pm)Polaris Wrote:

(April 16, 2015 at 7:21 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You reckon that's forgiveness or mercy...not annihilating people?  Specifically due to the "what would the neighbors say" argument?  Awfully low bar you've got there.

Yet, sadly, a much higher bar than the rest of the world at that time.

Not really, but if it helps you to imagine that the world was full of sadistic cunts at some point in the distant past...and that this ameliorates the capriciousness of your gods interactions with it acolytes..then whatevs.