(April 17, 2015 at 5:03 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(April 16, 2015 at 11:40 pm)Kitan Wrote: A teacher shows the test result in order for the student to know whether or not he needs improvement.  I have received no test results from your imaginary friend.  

Could it be He hasn't found it necessary to test one who will never choose to follow Him.

GC

Could it be that god is simply a complete idiot?

(April 16, 2015 at 11:46 pm)Rhythm Wrote: However the story was meant to be taken - what is absolutely and demonstrably missing is the idea of original sin or of death as a punishment for sin.  Jews do not now, nor have they ever, to our knowledge, believed in this. The narrative explicitly references A & E's mortality when it mentions that they would become immortal by eating from the tree of life.  You don't have to become something that you already are.  

Not that the christians asked......but maybe they should have.

Quote:And the Etrnl Gd said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the Tree Of Life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the Etrnl Gd sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the Garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the Tree of Life.

G3:22-24

This passage comes after they lost their immortality. Think son, think. God did not want them living with sin for an eternity, He sought to save them from this, just as Jesus has by His completed ministry for man. The Eternal God showed mercy to them in their failure.

GC

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(April 17, 2015 at 5:06 pm)Quatermass Wrote:

(April 17, 2015 at 5:03 pm)Godschild Wrote: Could it be He hasn't found it necessary to test one who will never choose to follow Him.

GC

Could it be that god is simply a complete idiot?

No, but one who rejects Him might be viewed that way.

GC

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(April 17, 2015 at 8:01 am)Quatermass Wrote: I think if you don't give someone a concept of right and wrong, and then give them a command that requires a concept of right and wrong, you're asking for trouble! 

Adam and Eve knew right from wrong as far as disobedience of God is concerned, that is made quite clear in the story. If they had not God would not have punished them. They indicate they know by saying they would be punished for eating the fruit.

GC

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(April 17, 2015 at 4:42 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote:

(April 17, 2015 at 9:27 am)professor Wrote: My oh My, the God of Heaven can do no right.
Of course A&E had an awareness of death and right and wrong at their creation, they had a language placed in them and a whole realm of knowledge in place too, otherwise they would be totally dysfunctional.
Animals have knowledge in them intrinsically from birth.
It is no great feat for God to do the same for Adam.

You think you would fare better than Adam?
Nobody has so far.  Except the God Man Jesus, and we aint Him.

Actually I do not recall a biblical doctrine of "Original sin" as if it is some albatross hanging around our necks.
It does say, "In Adam all die but it also says in Christ all are made alive".
When the truck is barreling down the road at you, why not jump into a place of safety?
Why is that so hard?  
The devil excels at telling people's minds how unfair God is.
How about considering the source of that thought?

It seems to me, most of the time we think God is as stupid as ourselves.
It is time to step out of the devil's sandbox and start thinking intelligently.

Genesis 3:22-23 Wrote:And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.

The word "now" indicates that this is something new—something that wasn't so before but is so now. I did not write this book. It's not me you are disagreeing with nor is it me that you are accusing of stupidity.

Sure it was something new, Christians have never denied it wasn't, however knowing right from wrong doesn't necessarily mean one knows good from evil, we can see this in a child.

GC

(April 17, 2015 at 5:11 pm)Godschild Wrote: No, but one who rejects Him might be viewed that way.

Why?

Even more quixotically, why is one possible..but the other is not?

"Don't do it or I'll hit you" -okay. Is that what passes for christian moral agency?

(April 17, 2015 at 4:57 pm)professor Wrote: Perhaps this is just an assumption, but the term in the text above, "Knowing" has the connotation of intimate familiarity-
like when Adam "Knew" his wife.
Prior to that experience he knew ABOUT the topic some.

I was just over at Dragtimes.com looking at the track times of the newer cars and the power they produce now is amazing.
I know about the Mustangs (for example) but I have not experienced one.
That is kind of how I look at A&E's test.

The distinction you are trying to make is not in the text. 

Genesis 3:7 Wrote:And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

We know their physical eyes were already open. They saw their naked bodies, but it was not evil to them. So what eyes opened after they sinned?  The eyes that showed them that some things were good and some things were evil.  Where is the justice in Yahweh creating a world where knowledge is sin punishable by death?   

Rhonda, the eyes of their understanding were opened.
My personal view is that these 2 were engulfed in light (which was the glory of God) and when they blew it-
the glory left and THEN they saw their nakedness.
It was not that knowledge is the bad guy, it was the experiential knowledge of evil.

Jesus said. "This is eternal life- that they may KNOW thee O God and Thy Son..." knowing is, after all knowledge,
affirmed repeatedly to be sought after.
By knowledge the heavens and earth were made.

What was evil about eating the fruit? I don't know about you, but to me, a designation of evil requires a little more than disobedience. Kids disobey me constantly...and all joking aside....couldn't call them evil for it, or call that disobedience itself evil. Not even close.....I'm talking oceans of distance between that and evil...as I see evil.
also- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlBifX0H3yg

Why were they even naked in the first place? It's bad for them to be naked, unless they don't know it's bad?

Come on guys, they were in paradise and had been given one rule, ONLY one.
The voice of the snake became the one they followed (we have done a good job of following the same ever since).
The competing voice against God is man's test (God knows the outcome- nobody is ever going to be able to say they didn't know about God's justice because the test results will be in front of us).

One of the concepts found in the Bible is "You are a servant to whom you obey".
This puts Satan as master instead of God.   Not good.

We are not dealing with kids here.
These were mature people given one rule and given the outcome BEFOREHAND.
As for being naked and hiding?
Isn't that a normal response for grown people?
I am convinced that everyone of us would have made the same dumb choice A&E did because we STILL listen to the serpent.
Look around.
This aint the way it's supposed to be.
(It's also not the way it will end up )

And they had no understanding of why that one rule was in place, or what this "death" punishment Yahweh went on about was. 
The only reason I see that following Satan is bad, is because the genocidal narcissist decided to burn everyone in hellfire who didn't put him first.
Physically they may have been adults. Mentally they were kids. How could they be anything else? Part of growing up is about learning from things, and being your own person. That's why when you see a grown man acting immaturely, you call him a Man-child.
It's a normal response for people who grew up in a culture where that's normal. You need clothes for protection. Supposedly there was no need for protection from brambles, heat, or cold, so what's the point of covering up?
Yes, children make mistakes. That's why my two year old niece, who knew what the word don't meant, would still grab the knife off the table. She didn't understand what pain was, because she had never been cut by a knife, so she didn't learn to be careful around knife blades until she understood what pain meant.

As for Satan being in charge, I don't know if it's bad or not. I know most cultures that move away from theocracy tend to do better for society. The only information we have about him was written by his enemies, and his biggest crime was disobeying a guy that kills and tortures those who disobey him.