(April 22, 2015 at 9:50 am)dyresand Wrote:

(April 22, 2015 at 9:06 am)Brian37 Wrote: It will never die out, but it must be treated like the poison it is. No different than knowing while that pretty dormant volcano is still a volcano. Humans have rights and that should be a given, but the poison of religion is that far to many people point to the pretty and ignore the dark side.

Humans evolved to make bad guesses, that will always be part of our evolution. But we can work to improve keep those bad guesses from growing like weeds to the point of becoming destructive.

It would be nice if the world would give it up, but that seems to be impractical on a planet of 7 billion and even atheists shouldn't go about trying to push a utopia themselves. I do think it is a good goal though to push people verbally to think and push them to not allow religion to become abusive or demand taboos.

It will become the minority one day and then atheism for the most part will be dominate just not any time soon. 

 The future is not a given. Our current technology is making it harder for bad claims to find cover. But I hate it when atheists say "When we become the majority we will treat you better"

UM NO, again "atheist" merely means "off" or "empty" on one claim. After our current atheist minority dies out, future atheists will not have us around to be direct reminders, outside the words we record now. Atheists are still part of the same species. Our ability to be cruel or compassionate is in our evolution, not the labels we assign ourselves or others. Not even atheists should forget that.

(April 19, 2015 at 5:37 pm)Mezmo! Wrote:

(April 19, 2015 at 4:57 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Appeal to consequence.  

Got evidence?

Objects of mass move together as a consequence of gravity. That counts as evidence. You don't understand how the fallacy works do you?

Gravity is our description of the fact that "objects of mass move together".  You don't understand science, do you?

(April 19, 2015 at 5:37 pm)Mezmo! Wrote: Objects of mass move together as a consequence of gravity. That counts as evidence. You don't understand how the fallacy works do you?

(April 22, 2015 at 10:04 am)Chas Wrote:

(April 19, 2015 at 5:37 pm)Mezmo! Wrote: Objects of mass move together as a consequence of gravity. That counts as evidence. You don't understand how the fallacy works do you?

Gravity is our description of the fact that "objects of mass move together".  You don't understand science, do you?

I cant stand it when theists try to argue about science. If one can accept that there is no Thor theory of lightening surely they can understand that scientific method does not favor any religion or god claim because unlike religion, science does not prop up personal bias.

(April 22, 2015 at 8:57 am)dyresand Wrote: Well said but looking at it now religion really does need to die out but... its our ignorance in the end that keeps it around.

If you really wanted to understand what keeps it around you'd have to do some real research and not just assume the worst straw man intentions. You would look for a god shaped hole in the brain rather than viewing religious beliefs as primitive, failed attempts to understand the world.

Quote:Truthfully no religion is right and none of it should be given any special treatment or even be treated like its important. Rather putting religion on a stand saying its important it should be ridiculed for really what it is, the worst part of humanity. 

I hope you mean, that you need not carry on in your own reflections as if religion is something precious in and of itself. No disagreement.

However, every human being decides what is important to them and we all know theists regard their religious beliefs as important. This is a question of reciprocity and how we should conduct ourselves in relation to others. Do we acknowledge their right to disagree while maintaining a modicum of peer respect? Or, do we classify them as imperfect and ridicule them? Your answer will say much more about you and your own imperfections.

(April 22, 2015 at 10:30 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(April 22, 2015 at 10:04 am)Chas Wrote: Gravity is our description of the fact that "objects of mass move together".  You don't understand science, do you?

I cant stand it when theists try to argue about science. If one can accept that there is no Thor theory of lightening surely they can understand that scientific method does not favor any religion or god claim because unlike religion, science does not prop up personal bias.

I know, I don't get it. It's like they stick "God did it" post it notes over every tiny hole in scientific knowledge, and grudgingly remove them as science grows. What's the point? Someone doing that just can't care about the truth.

(April 22, 2015 at 9:56 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(April 22, 2015 at 9:50 am)dyresand Wrote: It will become the minority one day and then atheism for the most part will be dominate just not any time soon. 

 The future is not a given. Our current technology is making it harder for bad claims to find cover. But I hate it when atheists say "When we become the majority we will treat you better"

UM NO, again "atheist" merely means "off" or "empty" on one claim. After our current atheist minority dies out, future atheists will not have us around to be direct reminders, outside the words we record now. Atheists are still part of the same species. Our ability to be cruel or compassionate is in our evolution, not the labels we assign ourselves or others. Not even atheists should forget that.

I don't think religion will ever go away, it will just adapt itself. I agree with the sentiment. Not a single group is safe from dogmas, even atheists - Since being an atheist is just lacking belief in gods it should stay that way. There's no need for leaders and organizations. Additionally since Islam is growing and I suspect Deism will come back into fashion I doubt atheism will become the norm within my lifetime (and I am young).

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(April 22, 2015 at 10:44 am)robvalue Wrote:

(April 22, 2015 at 10:30 am)Brian37 Wrote: I cant stand it when theists try to argue about science. If one can accept that there is no Thor theory of lightening surely they can understand that scientific method does not favor any religion or god claim because unlike religion, science does not prop up personal bias.

I know, I don't get it. It's like they stick "God did it" post it notes over every tiny hole in scientific knowledge, and grudgingly remove them as science grows. What's the point? Someone doing that just can't care about the truth.

I still think you guys are confusing theists will specific denominations inside religion. There is nothing in being a theist that stops you from loving science. Additionally this idea that atheists have a monopoly of science is laudable at best. I know some Catholic priests who could lecture me on evolution quite well. Never underestimate people.

(April 22, 2015 at 10:44 am)robvalue Wrote:

(April 22, 2015 at 10:30 am)Brian37 Wrote: I cant stand it when theists try to argue about science. If one can accept that there is no Thor theory of lightening surely they can understand that scientific method does not favor any religion or god claim because unlike religion, science does not prop up personal bias.

I know, I don't get it. It's like they stick "God did it" post it notes over every tiny hole in scientific knowledge, and grudgingly remove them as science grows. What's the point? Someone doing that just can't care about the truth.

I cant give you the youtube link of Neil making this same argument because since I saw it there have been tons more.

But, just like in the Cosmos series, in that one video Neil points out throughout history in all religions humans hitting a wall they cant get past, stopping and going "thats it, we cant go any further, God did it" only to have future scientists break that wall. 

I hate the false accusation that if you say "you don't need that old claim" is being closed minded. The opposite is true. It made sense in antiquity that humans would gap fill because they didn't know any better. But when something is way past the point of not knowing any better, when you have better ways of measuring the world, it goes from unintentional ignorance to willful ignorance, and that is closed minded.

Right. It's worse when people put the sticky notes over things that science has explained, because they refuse to learn about science. It's just embarrassing, and that kind of person just seems entirely unwilling to learn, ever.

(April 19, 2015 at 4:54 pm)Lek Wrote: As I was driving home from bible study and worship service today I came to a realization.  It's not that all christians are joyful, even though they should be, but the only people I've come across in my life that I would consider joyful have been christians.  I see joy as different than happiness, in that it is a deeper contentment, and is there whether one's life is going well or not.  It's present even in times of great sickness and dying.  It's knowing that, no matter what happens, things are okay--not just that they will be okay, but they are okay.     

Perhaps you should broaden your circle of friends and acquaintances to include more non-Christians. You'll then discover that Christians have no monopoly on joy.