I'm absolutely baffled as to how atheists do not accept the existence of a creator and can only imagine there views are based on stupidity, illogical and incorrect application of science rather then intellect, logic, science etc.

Science rocks however it deals only with tangible phenomenon. Since God is something of the unseen we cannot apply science to God. Therefore in this respect trying to 'prove' God with science is complete stupidity. Of course when we apply science to tangible phenomenon sicence can prove/disprove a lot of things. Moreover when people like apparent scientific agnostics say we are waiting for a god to be proven, the stupidity of their statement is completely ignorant of science itself considering God is not tangible to us.

Nothing in existence creates itself or exists by its own accord. The very nature of anything in the known universe is that every thing is limited and dependent on something esle to maintain its existence. The question arises so where did everything come from. The only logical answer is that there must have been an initator/creator that started everything. The properties of this initiator/creator is that it is not limited or dependent on anything else to exist. Therefore God created everything and God has nothing before him.

It really is so simple. If I say x+3=5. You will say x MUST be 2 otherwise the rest of the equation cannot hold true. The proof that x is 2 is the rest of the equation. Likewise the proof that God exist is us, we are the proof. If he didnt exist theres no way that we would exist. The unlimited undependant creator is the neccessity for our universe to exist.

People discuss what came first the chicken or the egg? The answer is that it doesnt matter how many chickens or eggs came later neither does it matter if the initial creation was a chicken or an egg, the point is that whatever came first i.e. chicken or egg God must have come before it and God is neither a chicken or an egg, he is an unlimited idependant creator.

The tools science uses are tangible, limited and dependent i.e. do not exist by their own accord
and can only deal with tangible phoenomemon which have the same properties and do not exist by their own accord. Based on this fact and the simple essential logic I have explained any sensible and logic minded person has no choice but to accept the existence of a creator. Therefore please do not himuluate scence by trying to apply it to God and please stop being thinking illogically when it comes to the question of God. The signs of your creator are all around you e.g. the sun, the moon, the alternation of night and day and everything else we know to exist.

It really is not complicated, hidden or strange at all. You merely need to think sensibly and everything becomes clear. If you want to dispute anything in this article please address the specific points I have made with science, logic and reasoning. If you cannot, then that clearly shows your views on life are devoid of any intellect, logic etc

(September 9, 2010 at 8:19 pm)ThinkingMan Wrote: I'm absolutely baffled as to how atheists do not accept the existence of a creator and can only imagine there views are based on stupidity, illogical and incorrect application of science rather then intellect, logic, science etc.

Wow, first off, let's not start discussions by name calling. Not going to win any friends.

Quote:Science rocks however it deals only with tangible phenomenon. Since God is something of the unseen we cannot apply science to God. Therefore in this respect trying to 'prove' God with science is complete stupidity. Of course when we apply science to tangible phenomenon sicence can prove/disprove a lot of things. Moreover when people like apparent scientific agnostics say we are waiting for a god to be proven, the stupidity of their statement is completely ignorant of science itself considering God is not tangible to us.

Science isn't a religion, its not a belief system, it is none of the things you describe, its observation, hypothesis, testing, analyzing, concluding. So far science has proven itself at being adept at modeling how and why the universe works. That's ALL. Scientific methods can be applied to claims of God's impact, not to God itself, and no scientist attempts to put God to the test, there's nothing to test, as you say. But the claims by adherents can be examined and are largely proven wrong, hardly credible evidence to put faith in a creator.

Quote:Nothing in existence creates itself or exists by its own accord. The very nature of anything in the known universe is that every thing is limited and dependent on something esle to maintain its existence. The question arises so where did everything come from. The only logical answer is that there must have been an initator/creator that started everything. The properties of this initiator/creator is that it is not limited or dependent on anything else to exist. Therefore God created everything and God has nothing before him.

It really is so simple. If I say x+3=5. You will say x MUST be 2 otherwise the rest of the equation cannot hold true. The proof that x is 2 is the rest of the equation. Likewise the proof that God exist is us, we are the proof. If he didnt exist theres no way that we would exist. The unlimited undependant creator is the neccessity for our universe to exist.

People discuss what came first the chicken or the egg? The answer is that it doesnt matter how many chickens or eggs came later neither does it matter if the initial creation was a chicken or an egg, the point is that whatever came first i.e. chicken or egg God must have come before it and God is neither a chicken or an egg, he is an unlimited idependant creator.

This is the first cause argument, research it, come back and refute the logical fallacies you just spouted, I won't dignify it with ANOTHER explanation here, needless to say, it doesn't follow.

Quote:The tools science uses are tangible, limited and dependent i.e. do not exist by their own accord
and can only deal with tangible phoenomemon which have the same properties and do not exist by their own accord. Based on this fact and the simple essential logic I have explained any sensible and logic minded person has no choice but to accept the existence of a creator. Therefore please do not himuluate scence by trying to apply it to God and please stop being thinking illogically when it comes to the question of God. The signs of your creator are all around you e.g. the sun, the moon, the alternation of night and day and everything else we know to exist.

It really is not complicated, hidden or strange at all. You merely need to think sensibly and everything becomes clear. If you want to dispute anything in this article please address the specific points I have made with science, logic and reasoning. If you cannot, then that clearly shows your views on life are devoid of any intellect, logic etc

It's only uncomplicated if you insert God for the real answers to the hard questions. Stop the name calling, nothing you've said has any semblance of logical consistency. There is nothing to argue with, if you believe this, then you do not understand reason and logic, end of story.

Haha! ThinkingMan is a very ironic name to have chosen. SuperstitiousMan or GullibleMan seem like they would have been more accurate choices.

Lol Oh boy. I admire the confidence. But this will not end well for anyone.

ThinkingMan, I think this atheist video sums up my response nicely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

(September 9, 2010 at 8:19 pm)ThinkingMan Wrote: I'm absolutely baffled as to how atheists do not accept the existence of a creator and can only imagine there views are based on stupidity, illogical and incorrect application of science rather then intellect, logic, science etc.

Ooooh boy, this will be fun.

Quote:Science rocks however it deals only with tangible phenomenon. Since God is something of the unseen we cannot apply science to God.

Untrue, if you believe in a god who intervienes and changes phenomenon in the natural world then the effects of these interactions could be seen as an explicit and unexplainable, especially if they happen in systems that are well understood and that we have extremely accurate predictions for.

Quote: Therefore in this respect trying to 'prove' God with science is complete stupidity.

That's why nobody is trying to 'disprove' god. Even if we could falsify religious desctiptions the theists would simply redefine the God.

Quote: Of course when we apply science to tangible phenomenon sicence can prove/disprove a lot of things. Moreover when people like apparent scientific agnostics say we are waiting for a god to be proven, the stupidity of their statement is completely ignorant of science itself considering God is not tangible to us.

You make the mistake of thinking only empirical evidence is the only thing sufficient in determining that a God exists. There is still logical necessity, so the question is: Do you have an argument that necessitates the existence of God?

Quote:Nothing in existence creates itself or exists by its own accord.

Except your god right? How convenient.

Quote: The very nature of anything in the known universe is that every thing is limited and dependent on something esle to maintain its existence.

False. Energy can neither be created or destroyed, it does not require anything for it's existence.

Quote: The question arises so where did everything come from. The only logical answer is that there must have been an initator/creator that started everything.

So now you speak of Logic... If you think it is so obvious that god exists and can be demonstrated logically then please, present an argument for his existence, then we will see how logical you are.

Quote: The properties of this initiator/creator is that it is not limited or dependent on anything else to exist. Therefore God created everything and God has nothing before him.

Bare assertion.

Quote:It really is so simple. If I say x+3=5. You will say x MUST be 2 otherwise the rest of the equation cannot hold true. The proof that x is 2 is the rest of the equation. Likewise the proof that God exist is us, we are the proof. If he didnt exist theres no way that we would exist. The unlimited undependant creator is the neccessity for our universe to exist.

You're new at this aren't you?

Quote:People discuss what came first the chicken or the egg? The answer is that it doesnt matter how many chickens or eggs came later neither does it matter if the initial creation was a chicken or an egg, the point is that whatever came first i.e. chicken or egg God must have come before it and God is neither a chicken or an egg, he is an unlimited idependant creator.

The egg came first, the evolutionary ancestors of chickens still laid eggs

Quote:The tools science uses are tangible, limited and dependent i.e. do not exist by their own accord
and can only deal with tangible phoenomemon which have the same properties and do not exist by their own accord. Based on this fact and the simple essential logic I have explained any sensible and logic minded person has no choice but to accept the existence of a creator. Therefore please do not himuluate scence by trying to apply it to God and please stop being thinking illogically when it comes to the question of God. The signs of your creator are all around you e.g. the sun, the moon, the alternation of night and day and everything else we know to exist.

No, all you have done is whine about how God must exist, you still haven't provided any reason or evidence for his existence beyond your own incredulity, which is a logical fallacy funnily enough - Sorta defeats your so called "logic" doesn't it?

Quote:It really is not complicated, hidden or strange at all. You merely need to think sensibly and everything becomes clear. If you want to dispute anything in this article please address the specific points I have made with science, logic and reasoning. If you cannot, then that clearly shows your views on life are devoid of any intellect, logic etc

You are the one making the case here, and thus far it has been a mix-mash of two fallacies, personal incredulity and bare assertions and maybe some others i've missed. You haven't made a case for the existence of god at all.

Be nice thinkingman or are you just seeking trouble? You will find that people here will withdraw all importance to you if you open your posts like that.

Quote:You're new at this aren't you?

Someone please send this fool with no sense of irony back to his madrassa. He thinks he's talking to fellow ignoramuses. Ignorami? I get confused,because I'm a stupid atheist.

I think it's probably a waste of time trying to teach it even a little about reason,logic and rational argument. That presumes a capacity for independent thought.

Why is it we seem to attract mainly the lunatic fringe of both Christianity and Islam?

You haven't even come close, padraic. You just think you have.

(September 9, 2010 at 9:37 pm)padraic Wrote:

Quote:You're new at this aren't you?

Someone please send this fool with no sense of irony back to his madrassa. He thinks he's talking to fellow ignoramuses. Ignorami? I get confused,because I'm a stupid atheist.

I think it's probably a waste of time trying to teach it even a little about reason,logic and rational argument. That presumes a capacity for independent thought.

Why is it we seem to attract mainly the lunatic fringe of both Christianity and Islam?

Good question, maybe some pastafarians would be nice. haha