Help spread the word my fellow economic liberals. It is way past time we take away the bullshit cold war argument from the right. It is a bullshit myth that those on the left hate the private sector for merely saying that wages are not keeping up with the cost of living. No sane person should want us to become Stalin's Russia or Cuba. The right has successfully and for far too long have treated the word "Capitalism" as a form of government. It is not. China allows western businesses and the communist party keeps its power selling cheap crap with cheap labor to the rest of the world. The Saudi Royal family owns oil companies and has stock on banks and weapons. Gadaffi was a billionaire who owned stock in GE. Billionaires like Nick Hanauer in the United States understands that the exploding pay gap will kill the feedback loop that makes his class rich. It is way past time the left take the cold war argument away from the right.

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THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS when liberal apathy continues in midterms.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/stat...13051.html

I hope these retards realize that the leftists they are describing (Communists, marxists, socialists, etc.) hate them as much as they hate conservatives and rightist capitalists.

I agree with the sentiment. It's important to tell people that conservatives or liberals are not that different because ultimately both take their values of classical liberalism and capitalism

(April 24, 2015 at 11:20 am)Dystopia Wrote: I hope these retards realize that the leftists they are describing (Communists, marxists, socialists, etc.) hate them as much as they hate conservatives and rightist capitalists.

I agree with the sentiment. It's important to tell people that conservatives or liberals are not that different because ultimately both take their values of classical liberalism and capitalism

Um , dems are on the right side of economic history. I hate MARX as much as Ayn Rand. The only problem with the left is allowing the right to blackmail us and our voter apathy.

My party has the right ideas. I am an economic liberal, but it is BS to say the left is anti private sector merely for saying the pay gap is killing us. Billionaire Nick Hanauer agrees that it will only kill the feedback loop that makes his class rich if we keep exploding the pay gap.

A plutocracy is a plutocracy no matter where the wealth is concentrated, be it a political party or class. You starve too much of any population evolution will kick in and those being hurt will at the first chance take a shot at the powers. This is not open vs closed societies, this is simple evolution.

Quote:The right has successfully and for far too long have treated the word "Capitalism" as a form of government.

Ha!  The fuckers treat it like it is a religion.

(April 24, 2015 at 11:36 am)Brian37 Wrote:

(April 24, 2015 at 11:20 am)Dystopia Wrote: I hope these retards realize that the leftists they are describing (Communists, marxists, socialists, etc.) hate them as much as they hate conservatives and rightist capitalists.

I agree with the sentiment. It's important to tell people that conservatives or liberals are not that different because ultimately both take their values of classical liberalism and capitalism

Um , dems are on the right side of economic history. I hate MARX as much as Ayn Rand. The only problem with the left is allowing the right to blackmail us and our voter apathy.

My party has the right ideas. I am an economic liberal, but it is BS to say the left is anti private sector merely for saying the pay gap is killing us. Billionaire Nick Hanauer agrees that it will only kill the feedback loop that makes his class rich if we keep exploding the pay gap.

A plutocracy is a plutocracy no matter where the wealth is concentrated, be it a political party or class. You starve too much of any population evolution will kick in and those being hurt will at the first chance take a shot at the powers. This is not open vs closed societies, this is simple evolution.

The reason why I grow skeptical of liberals, social liberals and social democrats is because they want to eat the whole cake. You can't have capitalism and avoid exploitation, wage gaps, cyclical crisis' and poverty. It is a massive contradiction and it will not work. Either you support individual rights and private property or you don't. 

Personally I don't hate anyone who didn't demonstrate will to commit great acts of evil like Hitler or Rodrigo Borgia - Someone who just wrote a few books is not someone I will ever hate as much as I disagree with the person

If you are an economic liberal then inevitably you support the drawbacks of the system, including neo-liberalism and the crap that comes with it. The idea that you can reform and have a mixed economy is beautiful in theory but I have not seen how it can be achievable if the ruling class is still the same and quite frequently the same family lineages.

(April 24, 2015 at 11:46 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:The right has successfully and for far too long have treated the word "Capitalism" as a form of government.

Ha!  The fuckers treat it like it is a religion.

Well they don't own the rights to what a healthy market should mean. There is not one government friend or foe that does not invest in our global market. It is way past time we took that cold war fearmongering away from the GOP.

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(April 24, 2015 at 12:23 pm)Dystopia Wrote:

(April 24, 2015 at 11:36 am)Brian37 Wrote: Um , dems are on the right side of economic history. I hate MARX as much as Ayn Rand. The only problem with the left is allowing the right to blackmail us and our voter apathy.

My party has the right ideas. I am an economic liberal, but it is BS to say the left is anti private sector merely for saying the pay gap is killing us. Billionaire Nick Hanauer agrees that it will only kill the feedback loop that makes his class rich if we keep exploding the pay gap.

A plutocracy is a plutocracy no matter where the wealth is concentrated, be it a political party or class. You starve too much of any population evolution will kick in and those being hurt will at the first chance take a shot at the powers. This is not open vs closed societies, this is simple evolution.

The reason why I grow skeptical of liberals, social liberals and social democrats is because they want to eat the whole cake. You can't have capitalism and avoid exploitation, wage gaps, cyclical crisis' and poverty. It is a massive contradiction and it will not work. Either you support individual rights and private property or you don't. 

Personally I don't hate anyone who didn't demonstrate will to commit great acts of evil like Hitler or Rodrigo Borgia - Someone who just wrote a few books is not someone I will ever hate as much as I disagree with the person

If you are an economic liberal then inevitably you support the drawbacks of the system, including neo-liberalism and the crap that comes with it. The idea that you can reform and have a mixed economy is beautiful in theory but I have not seen how it can be achievable if the ruling class is still the same and quite frequently the same family lineages.

I am only skeptical about our politicians but still, they get pulled to the right because we the voter don't put enough pressure on them. Our voters have the empathy for society. Our voters need to stop allowing the right to blackmail the United States into shipping jobs overseas and stop letting them blackmail us to get tax codes that allow them offshore accounts to tax doge.

Nope, not going to paint the voters as the problem. You have a better argument in that the left gets pulled to the right because we are far too compromising.

(April 24, 2015 at 11:46 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:The right has successfully and for far too long have treated the word "Capitalism" as a form of government.

Ha!  The fuckers treat it like it is a religion.

For did not Jesus say to the money lenders "that's right boys, keep it up"

I'm likely going to be very rambly, sorry.

(April 24, 2015 at 12:23 pm)Dystopia Wrote: The reason why I grow skeptical of liberals, social liberals and social democrats is because they want to eat the whole cake. You can't have capitalism and avoid exploitation, wage gaps, cyclical crisis' and poverty. It is a massive contradiction and it will not work. Either you support individual rights and private property or you don't.

I don't know about this. What if private property rights start conflicting with individual rights? Like if racists monopolize hospitals or schools and withdrawal their services from whatever race they hate. I guess you have no problem with monopoly laws and laws again racist policies. I'm just agnostic towards broad statements like that. It's hard to tell what system "works" because "works" is such a vague statement. It could be said theocratic absolute monarchies like Saudi Arabia "work" very well.

Quote:If you are an economic liberal then inevitably you support the drawbacks of the system, including neo-liberalism and the crap that comes with it. The idea that you can reform and have a mixed economy is beautiful in theory but I have not seen how it can be achievable if the ruling class is still the same and quite frequently the same family lineages.

I don't know what you have in mind when you use the term "mixed economy"  and what you saying Americans should do. Pro-"Free market?" People here in the States don't use these terms very clearly that's why I ask. American libertarians(I don't know how many believe this) have insanely broad view of what a free market should be; that is, they're against public option for anything period even public schools, and are anti-any kind of laws that restrict and regulate the actions of companies period.

The longer I live and the more I understand evolution the more "isms" piss me off.

Humans compete in groups, they do that to create safety in numbers and to create opportunities at resources. There is not one group, political, religious or economic view that does not do this. They are still labels and ideas designed to convince people to join.

There certainly are competing claims in all these. And yes those claims do get complicated. But the goal is simple, to get members into that group in order to grow. I still value an open system rather than a closed one party system or dictatorship because it is closer to the reality of the diversity in all life. But regardless of what system one might argue as being moral, because humans run governments any system is going to be open to corruption and monopolies of power. The west simply makes it harder to create a monopoly. But considering what global corporatism is doing to our species, the uber rich of the word certainly are trying to set up a worldwide plutocracy.

(April 24, 2015 at 2:36 pm)Brian37 Wrote: The longer I live and the more I understand evolution the more "isms" piss me off.

Humans compete in groups, they do that to create safety in numbers and to create opportunities at resources. There is not one group, political, religious or economic view that does not do this. They are still labels and ideas designed to convince people to join.

There certainly are competing claims in all these. And yes those claims do get complicated. But the goal is simple, to get members into that group in order to grow. I still value an open system rather than a closed one party system or dictatorship because it is closer to the reality of the diversity in all life. But regardless of what system one might argue as being moral, because humans run governments any system is going to be open to corruption and monopolies of power. The west simply makes it harder to create a monopoly. But considering what global corporatism is doing to our species, the uber rich of the word certainly are trying to set up a worldwide plutocracy.

The rich are the problem they hog all the resources and money and expect everyone else to fight over the scraps. They also never seem to think that they have enough they always want more.

The backlash is inevitable and the later it comes the worse it will be like in france in 1789 .