(June 11, 2015 at 12:06 pm)Anima Wrote:

(June 11, 2015 at 11:58 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: No.  They can't be investigated let alone refuted.  You don't get to concoct unfalsifiable premises and then treat that as 'reasonable'.

(June 11, 2015 at 12:01 pm)abaris Wrote: What's reasonable about believing hearsay and supernatural legends?

Zeus, Odin, Osiris, Allah or Vishnu haven't been refuted by science either. Fairies, unicorns and trolls under bridges also wait for the refuting business. Still, I guess, you don't believe in all of the above.

About as much is reasonable in believing in the Evolution, the Big Bang theory, M-theory, Gravitational Theory, and Black Holes.  The theory or hypothesis serves as an explanation of the phenomena.  That does not mean the theory IS the explanation for the phenomena.  What is will not change regardless of our theories of what is as existence is not defined by us (realism)

You don't have to believe in evolution for it to be true to yourself. Evolution and natural selection is true. Look at it this way
if evolution didn't exist we wouldn't need different variations of medication or flu vaccines. The truth is evolution does exist this is why
in the medical and pharmaceutical profession different variations of the flu vaccine exists. Because you want to believe you were created by something
doesn't make it true. Because various viruses and even diseases exist because like us the flu changes every year and even viruses and types of sicknesses
evolve to be antibiotic resistant. 

(June 11, 2015 at 12:08 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: A theory is a model that can be tested and falsified.  Flat assertions about supernatural activity that cannot be investigated are not a theory, and it's not reasonable to believe in something whose mere possibility cannot even be determined.

Not all theories can be tested and falsified. (Big Bang, Evolution, Gravitation, and M-Theory are all such theories).

"A theory can be normative (or prescriptive),[1] meaning a postulation about what ought to be. It provides "goals, norms, and standards".[2] A theory can be a body of knowledge, which may or may not be associated with particular explanatory models. To theorize is to develop this body of knowledge.[3]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory

We're talking about scientific theories, Anima. Trying to compare evolution to the colloquial usage of the word is goddamn dishonest as shit. And I think you know that.

(June 11, 2015 at 12:19 pm)Anima Wrote: Not all theories can be tested and falsified. (Big Bang, Evolution, Gravitation, and M-Theory are all such theories).

Yeah, go give your former science teacher a good kicking, since he obviously didn't explain to you the difference between all of the above and the resurrection, to take only the most obvious example of supernatural fiat claims.

Oh, come on Anima. You really can't think of anything that would falsify evolutionary theory as it currently stands? Sorry, I don't believe you.

(June 11, 2015 at 12:17 pm)dyresand Wrote: You don't have to believe in evolution for it to be true to yourself. Evolution and natural selection is true. Look at it this way
if evolution didn't exist we wouldn't need different variations of medication or flu vaccines. The truth is evolution does exist this is why
in the medical and pharmaceutical profession different variations of the flu vaccine exists. Because you want to believe you were created by something
doesn't make it true. Because various viruses and even diseases exist because like us the flu changes every year and even viruses and types of sicknesses
evolve to be antibiotic resistant. 

Do not sell the theory of Evolution so short. It is beyond that of mere genetic mutation and as such genetic mutation does not constitute Evolution as a whole.

Because you want to believe things "adapt" does not make it true. It could all just be coincidence

(Though I am not keen to argue this as I believe Evolutionary theory is an excellent explanation for the change of species over time from one to another. Even with the gaps in the evolution of numerous animals which appear to arise out of nowhere.)

-_-

do we REALLY need to remind of the scientific definition of 'theory' every single fucking time this discussion comes up? It's so damn dishonest to conflate the colloquial and scientific terms. You might as well be arguing that the law of gravity is wrong because it's not a factual legal regulation.

I'm hoping you're not being serious here Anima. Science is not like religious beliefs, it's not simply a matter of opinion. I'm sure you should know this.

(June 11, 2015 at 12:21 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: We're talking about scientific theories, Anima.  Trying to compare evolution to the colloquial usage of the word is goddamn dishonest as shit.  And I think you know that.

I don't think them to be dishonest, only fundamentally ignorant.

(June 11, 2015 at 12:24 pm)Anima Wrote:

(June 11, 2015 at 12:17 pm)dyresand Wrote: You don't have to believe in evolution for it to be true to yourself. Evolution and natural selection is true. Look at it this way
if evolution didn't exist we wouldn't need different variations of medication or flu vaccines. The truth is evolution does exist this is why
in the medical and pharmaceutical profession different variations of the flu vaccine exists. Because you want to believe you were created by something
doesn't make it true. Because various viruses and even diseases exist because like us the flu changes every year and even viruses and types of sicknesses
evolve to be antibiotic resistant. 

Do not sell the theory of Evolution so short.  It is beyond that of mere genetic mutation and as such genetic mutation does not constitute Evolution as a whole.

Because you want to believe things "adapt" does not make it true.  It could all just be coincidence

(Though I am not keen to argue this as I believe Evolutionary theory is an excellent explanation for the change of species over time from one to another.  Even with the gaps in the evolution of numerous animals which appear to arise out of nowhere.)

Yes evolution is true. Do not start word bending i never sold it short. I put up this argument for it. If evolution did not exist we would need different variations of the flu vaccine.
That being the case if it didn't exist. But that is not true we have different variants of the flu vaccine. Along side with infections diseases and other sorts of this that need antibiotics over time become resistant to medication and antibiotics meaning they evolved. Simple enough is not? Again generation a set 1 antibiotics work generations 3 4 5 antibiotics work well but not enough generation 6 8 9 + antibiotics do not work and a new set of medication needs to be made. That is the best example of what i can give.