(June 18, 2015 at 12:51 pm)Faith No More Wrote: I'd have a thousand times more respect for Catholics if they'd actually acknowledge the shortcomings of their church instead of whining about anti-Catholic agendas.  Instead, we get people like Randy that do their best to defend the church no matter what it's accused of and whine that anyone that criticizes Catholicism just has an agenda to push.  

If you're tired of playing whack-a-mole, stop trying to defend the indefensible.

Anyone who really faced up to the crimes of the Catholic Church could never remain a Catholic.

(June 18, 2015 at 2:52 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Anyone who really faced up to the crimes of the Catholic Church could never remain a Catholic.

While you might think that is true, some people(especially the old ones) have their identities so entwined with Catholicism that nothing the church could do would cause them to stop identifying as a Catholic. For some families, Catholicism is as much a culture passed down from generation to generation as it is a religion.

(June 18, 2015 at 3:07 pm)Faith No More Wrote:

(June 18, 2015 at 2:52 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: Anyone who really faced up to the crimes of the Catholic Church could never remain a Catholic.

While you might think that is true, some people(especially the old ones) have their identities so entwined with Catholicism that nothing the church could do would cause them to stop identifying as a Catholic.  For some families, Catholicism is as much a culture passed down from generation to generation as it is a religion.

What makes you think that they ever really face up to the crimes of the Catholic Church?

(June 18, 2015 at 12:49 pm)LastPoet Wrote:

(June 18, 2015 at 12:43 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I wish I had a buck for every xtian shitwit who showed up and said "I was an atheist until jesus pissed on my head....now I believe."  I'd be a rich man.

Fuck you and your church, Randy.  Perfecting scumbaggery since the 4th century!

What is most intriguing is why other scumbags that believe the boygod, slightly differently, aren't showing up to say catholics aren't christians, like we saw so many times before. Each tend to it's business, I guess

Perhaps they suspend their dislike of each other's denominations because they don't want to be seen agreeing with atheists?

(June 18, 2015 at 3:07 pm)Faith No More Wrote: For some families, Catholicism is as much a culture passed down from generation to generation as it is a religion.

Which goes to show in my country. According to Gallup, 51 percent identify as irreligious, but 63 percent are members of the Catholic church.

Playing whack-a-mole comes with the expectation that at least one mole is actually struck....

(June 18, 2015 at 5:52 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Playing whack-a-mole comes with the expectation that at least one mole is actually struck....

Give me that goddamned hammer .... those sonsabitches will stay under the table.

Here is a link to Chapter 19 of:

Report of the Inter-Departmental Committee
to establish the facts of State involvement with the Magdalen Laundries
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/2013Magdal...353KB).pdf


Chapter 19 covers Living and Working Conditions in the Magdalen Laundries.

Read it.

Representative quotes:

A woman at that same Magdalen Laundry when asked if there had
been any physical punishments or beatings said “No, they never hit
you in the laundry. They never hit me, but the nun looked down on me
‘cause I had no father”.7

- A woman at another Magdalen Laundry said that “they might rap your
knuckles with theirs, that’d be it”.8

- Another woman, who was at a Magdalen Laundry for periods in the
1940s, 1950s and 1960s told the Committee “I have lovely scars from
the orphanage ... I was never hit in [name of Laundry]. The nuns never
hit me in [name of Laundry], I’ll give that to them. But they gave it to
you in your mind”. She added “I hit one of the nuns once with a stick
from the laundry”.9

- A woman who was at a different Magdalen Laundry said “they’d poke
you with pointer but they didn’t lash out”.10

- A woman at the same Magdalen Laundry said “I wasn’t beaten but
they’d shake you. And we were hungry – bread and dripping”.11

- Another woman said “I don’t ever remember anyone being beaten but
we did have to work very hard. We were robbed of our childhood, but
then, I had a mother that beat the crap out of me”.12

I have no need to defend EVERYTHING that may have occurred in the Magdalen Laundries, but did you catch that last quote? Yes, the girls in this institution had to work hard; it was the 1920's and Ireland was a poor country. (This was only a couple of generations after the English engineered the Great Famine that killed over 1 million Irish and ruined the country's economy.) But life in their family homes was probably even more difficult as a result of abuse from parents.

So, here you are...a bunch of atheists who hate the Catholic Church discussing the disciplinary measures implemented in an institution set up by the Government of Ireland to provide shelter (and incarceration when necessary) for "fallen women" (prostitutes) and women who were pregnant out of wedlock (with no other support) in another country a century ago and measuring them by OUR standards and culture.

As if sweatshop labor never occurred in the United States in the past (or among migrant farm workers today).

(I'm kinda tempted to ask whether the "outrage" expressed in this thread is an example of the natural reaction we have when objective moral truths have been violated or whether we even have the right to impose OUR views on others in a different society in the absence of objective moral truth which many deny, but I won't.)

As I stated in the "Thoughts on Atheism and Apologetics" thread, I could spend hours researching this only to have Nope or someone else simply move on to the next anti-Catholic topic du jour.

If you need more information, the links I have provided in my two posts should provide a good overview which is lacking in the biased material others have posted.

"Those kids parents were even worse bastards than the church"  

Great, they're both bastards...and?

Quote:As if sweatshop labor never occurred in the United States in the past (or among migrant farm workers today).

Bastards, and?

You -could- spend hours researching this topic..or you could spend a few minutes shamelessly excusing them on the grounds that there are other bastards in the world...the route you've taken is clear. We know that there are plenty of immoral people and immoral institutions...past and present. Your church is -among- them.

I'm starting to think they teach you to use a Tu Quoqe in Catechism or something. It seems to be the go to response for Catholics.