(June 29, 2015 at 2:41 pm)pool Wrote: First of all thank you for an actual reply.
As for my counter reply:
(I'll be as descriptive as possible)

3. Imagine yourself sitting inside a dark room and suddenly a person appear in front of you,smiles at you and then suddenly vanishes.
This is a supernatural occurence right?

What basically happened here is this:
*A being is teleported in front of you.
*This being is teleported from you.

Teleportation is a theoretical possibility humans have just not yet developed any practical implementation.
See how i said "Superior Alien" race?An alien race that have tackled this problem will have the technological means of performing teleportation which would make them
supernatural with respect to us(since we are yet not familiar with the possibility of such a phenomenon and hence can't explain it,however they appear normal to themselves because they are familiar with this phenomenon.).But the fact remains that they are supernatural to US.

5. Refer to 3.

6. I said that these Superior Aliens are similar to or have similar attributes such as a God because of how they can perform "Supernatural" things with respect to us,i think supernatural is a very relative term and we should understand it.What Supernatural to X may not be Supernatural to Y because Y can understand this phenomenon.

"Our current technology would look supernatural to humans just a couple of hundred years ago. Doesn't make it supernatural, does it?" 
Of course it doesn't make it supernatural  - to US.But it IS supernatural to the humans than are from a couple of hundred years ago.

7. Refer everything above.

Nothing you describe is supernatural. 

Unknown technology =/= supernatural.

(June 29, 2015 at 3:15 pm)Aristocatt Wrote: You are misunderstanding what it means for something to be beyond scientific understanding, and what it means for something to be beyond current scientific understanding.  If airplanes were around when Romans were conquering the known world, they would not have been supernatural then, just as they are not supernatural now.

I see the point you are trying to make.But i don't think you understand what i'm trying to convey.

Consider that humans didn't have any scientific proof for even the theoretical aspect of teleportation.
Consider that in a distant planet species X did have the scientific proof for the theoretical aspect of teleportation and the practical implementation of teleportation.

According to humans scientific understanding(i'm not saying current scientific understanding)teleportation is impossible.

According to X's scientific understanding teleportation is possible.

So according to humans teleportation is supernatural because they do not have a clear scientific understanding of how the phenomenon works.
So according to X's teleportation is natural because they have a clear scientific understanding of how the phenomenon works.

When i said current scientifc understanding i meant as in the scientific understanding at time t(t being the current time).
What i meant was that current scientific understanding of concept 'g' = scientific understanding of concept 'g' at time t.

If the concept 'g' was discovered/invented at time 't' as of then it is natural but as in time t-n it is supernatural because at time t-n their scientific understanding was not equal to the scientific understanding at time t.When i said current scientific understanding i was trying to explain how,concept 'g' discovered/invented at time 't' and is entirely normal may be supernatural at time t-n(because the scientific knowledge at time t directly contradicts with the scientific knowledge at time t-n),by using time to further emphasize the relativity in question.

(June 29, 2015 at 3:31 pm)pool Wrote:

(June 29, 2015 at 3:15 pm)Aristocatt Wrote: You are misunderstanding what it means for something to be beyond scientific understanding, and what it means for something to be beyond current scientific understanding.  If airplanes were around when Romans were conquering the known world, they would not have been supernatural then, just as they are not supernatural now.

I see the point you are trying to make.But i don't think you understand what i'm trying to convey.

Oh I doubt that very much.  Your powers of reason are in question.

I understand what you are saying. Let me try this from another angle.
The definition of supernatural precludes us from ever knowing if something is supernatural.

Also, science does not claim that things that we do not understand are impossible. That is, Science does not try to prove negatives.

(June 29, 2015 at 3:31 pm)pool Wrote:

(June 29, 2015 at 3:15 pm)Aristocatt Wrote: You are misunderstanding what it means for something to be beyond scientific understanding, and what it means for something to be beyond current scientific understanding.  If airplanes were around when Romans were conquering the known world, they would not have been supernatural then, just as they are not supernatural now.

I see the point you are trying to make.But i don't think you understand what i'm trying to convey.

Consider that humans didn't have any scientific proof for even the theoretical aspect of teleportation.
Consider that in a distant planet species X did have the scientific proof for the theoretical aspect of teleportation and the practical implementation of teleportation.

According to humans scientific understanding(i'm not saying current scientific understanding)teleportation is impossible.

According to X's scientific understanding teleportation is possible.

So according to humans teleportation is supernatural because they do not have a clear scientific understanding of how the phenomenon works.
So according to X's teleportation is natural because they have a clear scientific understanding of how the phenomenon works.

When i said current scientifc understanding i meant as in the scientific understanding at time t(t being the current time).
What i meant was that current scientific understanding of concept 'g' = scientific understanding of concept 'g' at time t.

If the concept 'g' was discovered/invented at time 't' as of then it is natural but as in time t-n it is supernatural because at time t-n their scientific understanding was not equal to the scientific understanding at time t.When i said current scientific understanding i was trying to explain how,concept 'g' discovered/invented at time 't' and is entirely normal may be supernatural at time t-n(because the scientific knowledge at time t directly contradicts with the scientific knowledge at time t-n),by using time to further emphasize the relativity in question.

I think I am starting to get a taste of the frustration others here are having with your posts.


It doesn't matter if every human ever born believes it is supernatural, based on their belief that it is impossible, if another race has discovered how to do it, it is not supernatural.

(June 29, 2015 at 3:44 pm)Aristocatt Wrote: I understand what you are saying.  Let me try this from another angle.
The definition of supernatural precludes us from ever knowing if something is supernatural.

Also, science does not claim that things that we do not understand are impossible.  That is, Science does not try to prove negatives.

Exactly,that is precisely what i was trying to say.
It is because of the loophole in the very definition of supernatural i decided to bring forward an idea such as Current scientific knowledge/understanding.

(June 29, 2015 at 3:31 pm)pool Wrote: If the concept 'g' was discovered/invented at time 't' as of then it is natural but as in time t-n it is supernatural because at time t-n their scientific understanding was not equal to the scientific understanding at time t.

Our ignorance does not make something supernatural by definition. I can't understand why you don't realize the ridiculousness of your assertion; that things instantaneously go from having supernatural causes to natural causes the moment one of us figures out what's going on. The natural causes existed all along. It was only superstitious idiots afraid of uncertainty that assigned events supernatural causes. It's called an argument from ignorance.

(June 29, 2015 at 3:31 pm)pool Wrote: When i said current scientifc understanding i meant as in the scientific understanding at time t(t being the current time).
What i meant was that current scientific understanding of concept 'g' = scientific understanding of concept 'g' at time t.

If the concept 'g' was discovered/invented at time 't' as of then it is natural but as in time t-n it is supernatural because at time t-n their scientific understanding was not equal to the scientific understanding at time t.When i said current scientific understanding i was trying to explain how,concept 'g' discovered/invented at time 't' and is entirely normal may be supernatural at time t-n(because the scientific knowledge at time t directly contradicts with the scientific knowledge at time t-n),by using time to further emphasize the relativity in question.

This is where we are disagreeing.
Do you agree that whether or not an object is supernatural is a quality of that object?

(June 29, 2015 at 3:46 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(June 29, 2015 at 3:31 pm)pool Wrote: I see the point you are trying to make.But i don't think you understand what i'm trying to convey.

Consider that humans didn't have any scientific proof for even the theoretical aspect of teleportation.
Consider that in a distant planet species X did have the scientific proof for the theoretical aspect of teleportation and the practical implementation of teleportation.

According to humans scientific understanding(i'm not saying current scientific understanding)teleportation is impossible.

According to X's scientific understanding teleportation is possible.

So according to humans teleportation is supernatural because they do not have a clear scientific understanding of how the phenomenon works.
So according to X's teleportation is natural because they have a clear scientific understanding of how the phenomenon works.

When i said current scientifc understanding i meant as in the scientific understanding at time t(t being the current time).
What i meant was that current scientific understanding of concept 'g' = scientific understanding of concept 'g' at time t.

If the concept 'g' was discovered/invented at time 't' as of then it is natural but as in time t-n it is supernatural because at time t-n their scientific understanding was not equal to the scientific understanding at time t.When i said current scientific understanding i was trying to explain how,concept 'g' discovered/invented at time 't' and is entirely normal may be supernatural at time t-n(because the scientific knowledge at time t directly contradicts with the scientific knowledge at time t-n),by using time to further emphasize the relativity in question.

I think I am starting to get a taste of the frustration others here are having with your posts.


It doesn't matter if every human ever born believes it is supernatural, based on their belief that it is impossible, if another race has discovered how to do it, it is not supernatural.

The problem with this argument is that you automatically assumes that humans are aware of the discovery of this another race.
If we did it'd of course not be supernatural,i agree.
But we don't.
That's what makes it supernatural.

(June 29, 2015 at 3:52 pm)pool Wrote: That's what makes it supernatural.

There is nothing supernatural about taking the example of ourselves and extending that possibility to other similar habitats in the universe. Stop torturing language.