(June 30, 2015 at 12:09 am)dyresand Wrote:

(June 29, 2015 at 7:58 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: *emphasis mine*
Ironic that you used the term miraculous.

His whole life was miraculous you muppet.    We're speaking of Jesus here, you know... God in human form, virgin birth, walking on water, people being healed of disease just by touching him, and you speculate that he may have suffered from infection....


Do yourself a favor, sit down and shut up.

Says the guy who believe's in a magic zombe jew that was born from a whore in the middle east, oh and to make things worse she was a "virgin" (Ladies gents i don't like using that word whore so please take no offense). And also believes that adam and eve were tempted by a talking lizard snake. And even a bigger smack to the face that god created human beings. 

1. There is no evidence of a person named jesus dying and coming back to life 

2. The bible is a rip off of other religions of the time

3. You are a disingenuous mother fucker

4. The bible is fucking hearsay it is not a accurate representation of history what so ever....

5. Historical or biblical jesus never existed to begin with.

That's supercalafragilisticexpialidocius.

(June 30, 2015 at 5:12 pm)tonechaser77 Wrote: There are so many contradictions inside the story of Jesus that you can't help but wonder what the hell was going on here. Many of these contradictions occur because of fighting sects of believers (Gnostics, Marcionites, Nicenes, etc)  attempting to disprove the other by blatantly 'adding too' and 'taking away'.  It's a big mess that takes an enormous amount of untangling. 

--Does this sound like the doing of a perfect god? 
--Would a god who wanted to be in relationship, through his son, with us, provide such controversial evidence of his existence, even controversial evidence of the existence of his son? 
--If a god existed and wanted to be in harmony with humans by sending a savior to eradicate sin, don't you think he would at least prevent human minds from contradicting one another to prevent such confusion on whether he really existed at all? Or all the actions he performed while on earth?

The evidence should be non-falsifiable in all points. God shouldn't need a human being to defend his story because of his own stupidity in allowing us to fuck it up. 

...Some issues that I'm framing from all the discussion in this thread...

Where was Jesus at the sixth hour on the day of the crucifixion? 
- On the cross (Mark 15:23)
-In Pilates court (John 19:14)

That's odd. Does this suggest that while the time may not have agreed, two independent sources claim that Jesus was crucified by Pontius Pilate?

Quote:Did Jesus ascend to Paradise the same day of the crucifixion?
-Yes He said to the thief who defended him, Today you will be with me in Paradise (Luke 23:43)
-No. He said to Mary Magdelene two days later, I have not yet ascended to the Father (John 20:17)
-No. ...that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures (I Cor. 15:4) 

As God, Jesus is not constrained by space or time. He was not sitting in the tomb watching the clock...

Quote:Was Jesus crucified on the daytime before the Passover meal or the daytime after?
-After (Mark 14:12-17)
-Before. Before the feast of the Passover (John 1) Judas went out at night (John 13:30). The other disciples thought he was going out to buy supplies to prepare for the Passover meal (John 13:29). When Jesus was arrested, the Jews did not enter Pilates judgment hail because they wanted to stay clean to eat the Passover (John 18:28). When the judgment was pronounced against Jesus, it was about the sixth hour on the day of Preparation for the Passover (John 19:14)

we are repeatedly told that Jesus was crucified on “the Day of Preparation,” which was the first century Jewish way of referring to Friday, the day of preparation for the sabbath (Saturday):

• Matthew 27:62 “Next day, that is, after the Day of Preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered before Pilate”
  
• John 19:14 “Now it was the Day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, ‘Behold your King!’”
  
• John 19:31 “Since it was the Day of Preparation, in order to prevent the bodies from remaining on the cross on the sabbath (for that sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.”
  
• John 19:42 “So because of the Jewish Day of Preparation, as the tomb was close at hand, they laid Jesus there.”
  

The fact that the Day of Preparation is the day before the sabbath is not only attested outside the New Testament, but in the gospels as well. Luke tells us: “It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin” (Luke 23:54, NIV). And Mark is totally explicit: “And when evening had come, since it was the Day of Preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, Joseph of Arimathea … took courage and went to Pilate, and asked for the body of Jesus” (Mark 15:42-53).

Quote:A large stone was placed at the entrance of the tomb. Where was the stone when the women arrived?
--They saw that the stone was Rolled back (Mark 16:4) They found the stone rolled away from the tomb (Luke 24:2) They saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb (John 20:1)
--As the women approached, an angel descended from heaven, rolled away the stone, and conversed with the women. Matthew made the women witness the spectacular rolling away of the stone (Matthew 28:1-6)

Wow. Women - who had absolutely NO standing in the ancient world whatsoever - were the first to discover that the tomb was empty? That meets the criterion of embarrassment, doesn't it?

Quote:When did Mary Magdelene first meet the resurrected Jesus? And how did she react?
--Mary and the other women met Jesus on their way back from their first and only visit to the tomb. They took hold of his feet and worshipped him (Matthew 28:9)
--On her second visit to the tomb Mary met Jesus just outside the tomb. When she saw Jesus she did not recognize him. She mistook him for the gardener. She still thinks that Jesus body is laid to rest somewhere and she demands to know where. But when Jesus said her name she at once recognized him and called him Teacher. Jesus said to her, Do not hold me... (John 20:11 to 17)

Matthew and John both attest to the fact that Jesus was alive? And that he was seen by Mary?

Did the people who survived the sinking of the Titanic agree on whether the ship broke in two before it went down?

The differences in the testimonies INCREASES the probability that the authors are telling the truth. Ask any detective how he evaluates whether suspects have rehearsed their alibis.

(June 30, 2015 at 6:50 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote: Therefor the magic trump card wins again.

Randy, you must realise therefore that it's pretty pointless to try and engage in conversation and honest debate if all you do when confronted with a contradiction is invoke magic, right? If x and y contradict each other, invoke magic and the contradiction resolves.

Not very fun, or very convincing.

Nor is it terribly fun when small-minded people cannot conceive of a BIG God who can do whatever He wants whenever He wants.

(June 30, 2015 at 7:05 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Not true at all, my wife is from Haiti where the main religion is voodoo (i've been there also), you'd be a fool to think it's fake. Also did not Pharaohs magicians preform the same miracles Moses did?

 

lololololololololol

Well, that answers that old question - you WILL believe ANY superstitious nonsense, won't you? In for a penny - in for a pound, I suppose...

smh
Voodoo... 



That just made my day...

(June 30, 2015 at 7:44 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote:

(June 30, 2015 at 7:05 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Not true at all, my wife is from Haiti where the main religion is voodoo (i've been there also), you'd be a fool to think it's fake. Also did not Pharaohs magicians preform the same miracles Moses did?

 

lololololololololol

Well, that answers that old question - you WILL believe ANY superstitious nonsense, won't you? In for a penny - in for a pound, I suppose...

smh
Voodoo... 



That just made my day...

The point is faith is a-religious, as the bible states, through faith ALL things are possible. If you have faith in voodoo, then it will work for you, likewise if you have faith that a sugar pill (placebo) will make you better, that will work for you also.

The placebo effect is a scientific fact.

(June 30, 2015 at 7:44 pm)Homeless Nutter Wrote:

(June 30, 2015 at 7:05 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Not true at all, my wife is from Haiti where the main religion is voodoo (i've been there also), you'd be a fool to think it's fake. Also did not Pharaohs magicians preform the same miracles Moses did?

Well, that answers that old question - you WILL believe ANY superstitious nonsense, won't you? In for a penny - in for a pound, I suppose...

Voodoo... 

That just made my day...

Laugh now, but there are evil spirits in this world.

(June 30, 2015 at 7:15 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:

(June 30, 2015 at 5:01 am)Neimenovic Wrote: 1+1+1=/=1

Got it?

Is that supposed to be an argument against the Trinity?

If so, you know the thread where we can discuss it more civilly.

I can't imagine how saying I'm a sinner in need of a savior-whether it apples to everyone or not-is more civil. It kills my itch for debate and is very insulting.

I'm wondering if the people who wrote and edited the bible simply didn't care about contradictions. They didn't think they were important. All that mattered was battering people's brains (literally and figuratively) until they unquestionably believed the bible was the word of God.

Secularism has rained in the literal brain bashing of Christianity quite a bit, but apart from that, the same is true today it seems.

(June 30, 2015 at 7:38 pm)Randy Carson Wrote:

(June 30, 2015 at 6:50 pm)Pandæmonium Wrote: Therefor the magic trump card wins again.

Randy, you must realise therefore that it's pretty pointless to try and engage in conversation and honest debate if all you do when confronted with a contradiction is invoke magic, right? If x and y contradict each other, invoke magic and the contradiction resolves.

Not very fun, or very convincing.

Nor is it terribly fun when small-minded people cannot conceive of a BIG God who can do whatever He wants whenever He wants.

I can't quite work out if you think it's a good thing that you're re-hasing an argument a 3 year old might come out with in the playground or not?

"Yeah well my dad is bigger than your dad!"

How puerile. Fascinating how the theist mind works.

EXPELLIARMUS!