(July 2, 2015 at 4:06 pm)Alex K Wrote: Jesus is not a nice man... How do you base your morals on that guy?

Yes.  He went on and on about his enemies being tortured in hellfire forever and ever.  And his reaction to a fig tree not bearing fruit because it was not in season is extremely childish.  Jesus is a remarkably poor role model.

(July 2, 2015 at 2:57 pm)robvalue Wrote: ... But as far as anyone has the right to call themselves Christian, I see no problem here ...

A right to call oneself something does not make one right in calling oneself that thing.  If she says she is the queen of England, are you going to bow down to her?

Suppose I were to tell you I am a Christian.  Of course, I don't believe in hell, or heaven, or that Jesus is the son of God, or that Jesus even existed as a man, or that there is a God at all.  But I am a Christian all right.

Now, what do you say to that?  Am I a Christian if I say I am?  Am I the queen of England if I say I am?  Is there a problem with saying that one is something that one is not?

I am reminded of something Lewis Carroll wrote:

Quote:Humpty Dumpty took the book, and looked at it carefully. 'That seems to be done right—' he began.

'You're holding it upside down!' Alice interrupted.

'To be sure I was!' Humpty Dumpty said gaily, as she turned it round for him. 'I thought it looked a little queer. As I was saying, that SEEMS to be done right—though I haven't time to look it over thoroughly just now—and that shows that there are three hundred and sixty-four days when you might get un-birthday presents—'

'Certainly,' said Alice.

'And only ONE for birthday presents, you know. There's glory for you!'

'I don't know what you mean by "glory,"' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument,"' Alice objected.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master—that's all.'

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12/12-h/12-h.htm

(It's a great book, by the way.)

There's glory for you.

(July 2, 2015 at 1:53 pm)cercatorius Wrote:

(July 2, 2015 at 1:42 pm)robvalue Wrote: How would you describe the bible, and what it means to you?

I feel that the bible is a collection of letters, poetry, fables, and word-of-mouth versions of events from history (not necessarily actual history), and a wonderful collection of myths.  I do not believe it to be a guidebook, history book, or science book. I do not believe it is inerrant, nor is it the inspired word of god. I think truth can be found in parts of it.  I think there is also truth in other myths (different than facts), fables, poetry, etc.  I think one of the biggest tragedies is people who want to make it a continuous single piece of work. That takes a lot of perspective away in one fell swoop.  In short, I think the bible is the pieced together written record of one group of people's ongoing attempt to make sense of their world and relate to the force of creation, and destruction.

Then why do you call yourself a Christian, to me a better suited name would be a Progressive Mythian. Eliminating all you have of the Bible how is it you could possibly identify with Christ. How is it you are able to see a purpose for Christ if the Bible's a myth. You should be honest with yourself and actually admit your a progressive non believer.

GC

(July 2, 2015 at 11:21 pm)Godschild Wrote: Then why do you call yourself a Christian, to me a better suited name would be a Progressive Mythian. Eliminating all you have of the Bible how is it you could possibly identify with Christ. How is it you are able to see a purpose for Christ if the Bible's a myth. You should be honest with yourself and actually admit your a progressive non believer.

GC

Anyone who believes that the bible provides truth is a mythian.

(July 2, 2015 at 11:29 pm)Kitan Wrote:

(July 2, 2015 at 11:21 pm)Godschild Wrote: Then why do you call yourself a Christian, to me a better suited name would be a Progressive Mythian. Eliminating all you have of the Bible how is it you could possibly identify with Christ. How is it you are able to see a purpose for Christ if the Bible's a myth. You should be honest with yourself and actually admit your a progressive non believer.

GC

Anyone who believes that the bible provides truth is a mythian.

You've given evidence of this I'm assuming.

GC

(July 2, 2015 at 11:38 pm)Godschild Wrote: You've given evidence of this I'm assuming.

GC

The evidence is evident due to the fact that many individuals are not dense enough to believe in it without the proper evidence required to support it as anything other than fiction.

(July 2, 2015 at 11:38 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(July 2, 2015 at 11:29 pm)Kitan Wrote: Anyone who believes that the bible provides truth is a mythian.

You've given evidence of this I'm assuming.

GC

I don't know if he has, but I sure will.

There is ample evidence to demonstrate that the christian bible is a clever(ish) fiction devised with two main purposes: explaining the natural world in the absence of widespread scientific process, and controlling humans. If you look at it for what it is, without bias, it becomes clear that the bible is part of an over-arching storytelling tradition that consistently comprises humanity's efforts to preserve what they think they know and to find deeper meaning in reality.

If you examine the content of the text itself, the stories share themes, components, and sometimes even whole narratives with other works of myth (some predating the bible) that were devised for reasons similar to the ones I've already mentioned. Some stories fill in at-the-time gaps in the popular understanding of the natural world, some stories are obvious propaganda to boost national pride and self-righteousness amongst the jewish and/or christian people, and still others serve merely to communicate "god's" commandments to society. It's the same kind of content you find in other systems of myth. Whether it's the flood story, Samson's strong-man-hero story, or even the story of a dying and rising savior god, none of these themes are unique or original to christianity or judaism.

So yeah...while there is no evidence of the existence of a creator god, there is evidence to suggest that the bible, like other works of myth, was written and inspired entirely by humans for entirely human reasons.

In the beginning, man created god in his image.

(July 2, 2015 at 9:00 pm)Pyrrho Wrote:

(July 2, 2015 at 2:57 pm)robvalue Wrote: ... But as far as anyone has the right to call themselves Christian, I see no problem here ...

A right to call oneself something does not make one right in calling oneself that thing.  If she says she is the queen of England, are you going to bow down to her?

---

Suppose I were to tell you I am a Christian.  Of course, I don't believe in hell, or heaven, or that Jesus is the son of God, or that Jesus even existed as a man, or that there is a God at all.  But I am a Christian all right.

Now, what do you say to that?  Am I a Christian if I say I am?  Am I the queen of England if I say I am?  Is there a problem with saying that one is something that one is not?

I am reminded of something Lewis Carroll wrote:

Quote:Humpty Dumpty took the book, and looked at it carefully. 'That seems to be done right—' he began.

'You're holding it upside down!' Alice interrupted.

'To be sure I was!' Humpty Dumpty said gaily, as she turned it round for him. 'I thought it looked a little queer. As I was saying, that SEEMS to be done right—though I haven't time to look it over thoroughly just now—and that shows that there are three hundred and sixty-four days when you might get un-birthday presents—'

'Certainly,' said Alice.

'And only ONE for birthday presents, you know. There's glory for you!'

'I don't know what you mean by "glory,"' Alice said.

Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument,"' Alice objected.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master—that's all.'

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12/12-h/12-h.htm

(It's a great book, by the way.)

There's glory for you.

---

Sigh, yes, I agree. Are we having a variety of pool's "For me, God is a slightly stronger ape in another Galaxy" spiel again?
Not quite as bad here, but still prone to be misleading

Hey, welcome to the forum ^_^

A bit of fun for those who share my stupid sense of humour: