For the past 200-300 years or so Atheism has flourished in developed countries, with atheism, has led to being secular countires, which have made us humans take leaps and bounds in all fields of science. However, is that about to end?
Europe's population is dwindilling, so to keep the economies afloat they get immigrants from developing countries. The major problem is that most immigrants, to Europe are either Muslims or Christians.
Whether the idea of God is a dellusion or not, Atheism isnt a very nice idea (You are a product of nothing and mere chance) most people will not adopt it, espically if they are from a developing country. Since most people will not adopt it and immigrants come from thrid world coutries who are either Muslims and Christians, who keep their faith. Are we going to see the slow and steady decay of Atheism?
I believe so.
I guess the question is, would you prefer to live in a majority Christian or Islamic country?
The problem with Muslims is they can be fired up and cry, 'Jihad' Causing civilised countires into barbaric (Afghanistan) nations. Im not saying all Muslims are like this. However, the worst you will get with a Christian nation is them knocking on your door and having billboards telling you not to have an abortion. Generally, in the 21st century you dont see Christians killing other people, because they believe contrary...
So I personally would prefer to live in a Christian nation, if I was an atheist...

China seems to contain twice as many atheists as there are people in Europe and North America combined, indeed more atheists than there are Muslims in the whole world put together. Given china's expected rise to become the premier industrial and commercial power over the next century, and probably technological and scientific power as well, I would expect atheism to become more influential than any time in human history regardless of what happens in Europe and north America.

The other really great rising power, India, is not atheistic but trenchantly polytheistic. If India also rises to the same level of influence and wealth china is expected to reach in 50 years, then I think judaism derived family of monotheistic faiths will, taken together (horrible thought for their respective followers, I know), lose it's position as the most influential system of beliefs in the world for the first time since Muslim conquest of 8-9th century.

BTW, just a few examples of the worst that Christians can do in 20th and 21st century can be found in the Balkans, I am pretty sure within your life time, unless you are less than 12. It included Christian militias gluing crosses onto their assault rifle butts lest there be any confusion about who it was that was committing genocide against local Muslims population as well as fellow Christians of a slightly different flavor.

However, I would argue that now that atheism and secularism has begun to flourish, as you put it, in the developed world there is very little that can be done to stop it. I agree that a lot of very religious immigrants will, to some degree, set things back a little but the children of these people will of course no longer have the same religious pressure they would have had living in a third world country or indeed in a theocracy.

Therefore, these children will be far more likely to be atheist or non-religious and their offspring even more so.

Quote:Atheism isnt a very nice idea

I think its a fine idea. Better than the bullshit story with your murderous old god at its center.

What the fuck is so appealing about religion, anyway? I can see it for simpletons but anyone with more than half a brain has got to be able to see the holes in it.

(October 9, 2010 at 3:16 am)solja247 Wrote: So I personally would prefer to live in a Christian nation, if I was an atheist...

And if you were a muslim you would be saying"So I personally would prefer to live in a Islamic nation, if I was an atheist..."

There also appears to be a correlation between a countries general education and its level of religion,

i.e the more backward it is the more religious it is.

Religion will probably always be around. There's a sucker born every minute, after all. However, secularism definitely has a positive correlation with technological progress and societal liberalisation. Assuming both of these things continue, I see no reason why atheism shouldn't grow too.

Choo-Choo, all aboard the strawman and non-sequitor post train!

(October 9, 2010 at 3:16 am)solja247 Wrote: For the past 200-300 years or so Atheism has flourished in developed countries, with atheism, has led to being secular countires, which have made us humans take leaps and bounds in all fields of science. However, is that about to end?

There's so many things wrong with this I can barely grasp it. First off, "atheism" isn't something that flourishes. Even so, it hasn't been "flourishing" over the past 200 to 300 years. Atheism has always been around.

Not only do you start off with something like this, you then take a giant leap from "Atheism" to "Secular Countries." You can't just declare 2 things and then compare them with something else. Secular countries have existed, and will always exist, regardless of people who believe in religion or not. People rejecting the claims of god doesn't always have it so that a nation truly becomes secular based off of that one reason. There are many reasons to be apart from religion, while still having religion in the country.

Quote:Europe's population is dwindilling, so to keep the economies afloat they get immigrants from developing countries. The major problem is that most immigrants, to Europe are either Muslims or Christians.

Europe's economy and population is doing just fine. Where are you getting this from?

Quote:Whether the idea of God is a dellusion or not, Atheism isnt a very nice idea (You are a product of nothing and mere chance) most people will not adopt it

Well, atheism isn't an "idea" as much as "not placing my hand in fire" is an idea. That's not what atheism is. Atheism is not "you are a product of nothing" and by "mere chance."

Atheism is a response to the theist claim that gods exist, period. It has nothing to do with the idea of how we got here. Even if you're talking from a scientific standpoint, you're still wrong. The universe did not come from "nothing" and we are not a product of "nothing." The universe has always existed and we are a part of it. Are you nothing? No, so how are you a "product of nothing?"

The universe didn't get here by "mere chance" either, it was simply here. There's nothing "chancy" about it.

Either way, this has nothing to do with Atheism. Either way, it's not an "idea" in either sense.

Quote:, espically if they are from a developing country. Since most people will not adopt it and immigrants come from thrid world coutries who are either Muslims and Christians, who keep their faith. Are we going to see the slow and steady decay of Atheism?
I believe so.

No, you won't.

Quote:I guess the question is, would you prefer to live in a majority Christian or Islamic country?
The problem with Muslims is they can be fired up and cry, 'Jihad' Causing civilised countires into barbaric (Afghanistan) nations. Im not saying all Muslims are like this. However, the worst you will get with a Christian nation is them knocking on your door and having billboards telling you not to have an abortion.

Or beating you up and killing you if you're gay. Or throwing you in prison if you say anything against them. Or being hung by rope if you're black. Or being kicked out of the country because you're foreign. And not having equal rights for women...

Quote:Generally, in the 21st century you dont see Christians killing other people, because they believe contrary...

Generally, yes, but it does happen, more than your "generally" would like you to believe.

Quote:So I personally would prefer to live in a Christian nation, if I was an atheist...

So, how is "atheism" a short lived idea? Your title was "Atheism, short lived idea" yet your concluding point is that you'd prefer to live in a Christian nation. Okay, even if you do live in a Christian nation, people will still be atheist against the religion.

If such a thing happened, you'd probably repeat history again anyway. People who are sick of the nation's crap will rebel.

Of course, you only listed Christian nation, and Islamic nations. There are plenty of other religions out there.

The only reason why you made the choice "Christian nation" is because you honestly believe that any nation that's under law of religion, acts similar to countries which currently do not uphold this practice. America is not a "Christian nation," for example, and if it truly was, it would be a MUCH different place.

Quote:China seems to contain twice as many atheists as there are people in Europe and North America combined

China also has the most Christians in it as well. China will probably be a Christian nation some time soon...

Quote:Given china's expected rise to become the premier industrial and commercial power over the next century, and probably technological and scientific power as well, I would expect atheism to become more influential than any time in human history regardless of what happens in Europe and north America.

I dont know how much you know about China, but millions of Chinese are becoming Christians. I was in Hong Kong and I saw a Christian reading their Bible in Maccas! they even invited me to church! Atheism has no hope when Christians act like a loving community, like they do in China.

Quote:BTW, just a few examples of the worst that Christians can do in 20th and 21st century can be found in the Balkans, I am pretty sure within your life time, unless you are less than 12. It included Christian militias gluing crosses onto their assault rifle butts lest there be any confusion about who it was that was committing genocide against local Muslims population as well as fellow Christians of a slightly different flavor.

10 points for attempting to derail this thread.

Quote:Therefore, these children will be far more likely to be atheist or non-religious and their offspring even more so.

I dont know. I know a lot of immigrants from third-wrold countries who do hold onto their faith. Remember, immigrants ussally are community centred than us in the developed world...

Quote:And if you were a muslim you would be saying"So I personally would prefer to live in a Islamic nation, if I was an atheist..."

No. If I had to live in any religious society, it would be a Buddhist society. Christians can be really crazy lol.

(October 9, 2010 at 5:19 am)solja247 Wrote: China also has the most Christians in it as well. China will probably be a Christian nation some time soon...

So you hope.

(October 9, 2010 at 5:19 am)solja247 Wrote: I dont know how much you know about China, but millions of Chinese are becoming Christians. I was in Hong Kong and I saw a Christian reading their Bible in Maccas! they even invited me to church! Atheism has no hope when Christians act like a loving community, like they do in China.
.

You are aware that hong kong is not representative of china right? That it was a british crown colony until 1997, and it inherited British colonial tradition, legislature, judicial and administrative structure? Despite being governed by Beijing now it still has it's own passport, currency, system of international visa arrangements? And why do you think atheism has no hope? Do you think everyone in as ruthlessly competitive a society as chinese society is now would indulge in self infantilization and seek comfort in squishy fairy tales?

(October 9, 2010 at 5:19 am)solja247 Wrote:

Quote:BTW, just a few examples of the worst that Christians can do in 20th and 21st century can be found in the Balkans, I am pretty sure within your life time, unless you are less than 12. It included Christian militias gluing crosses onto their assault rifle butts lest there be any confusion about who it was that was committing genocide against local Muslims population as well as fellow Christians of a slightly different flavor.

10 points for attempting to derail this thread.

No, I am sending it down your rail:

(October 9, 2010 at 5:19 am)solja247 Wrote: However, the worst you will get with a Christian nation is them knocking on your door and having billboards telling you not to have an abortion. Generally, in the 21st century you dont see Christians killing other people, because they believe contrary...

(October 9, 2010 at 5:19 am)solja247 Wrote:

Quote:BTW, just a few examples of the worst that Christians can do in 20th and 21st century can be found in the Balkans, I am pretty sure within your life time, unless you are less than 12. It included Christian militias gluing crosses onto their assault rifle butts lest there be any confusion about who it was that was committing genocide against local Muslims population as well as fellow Christians of a slightly different flavor.

10 points for attempting to derail this thread.

Sorry lad but it's a perfectly valid observation, you were claiming that the worst we can expect from modern christianity is door knocking and pamphlets.

Well no, the christian militias in the Balkan conflicts were bloody minded arseholes ( but for god so it was ok). And not forgetting the christians that have blown up abortion clinics etc.

And don't expect a christian theocracy to be any better than a muslim theocracy. Everything is permissable when you're doing it in the name of god.