(July 7, 2015 at 7:59 am)KUSA Wrote: Can someone explain to me what is wrong with revenge?

It creates and perpetuates cycles of harm and victimisation.

(July 7, 2015 at 8:30 am)Ben Davis Wrote:

(July 7, 2015 at 7:59 am)KUSA Wrote: Can someone explain to me what is wrong with revenge?

It creates and perpetuates cycles of harm and victimisation.

And self-pity

For people using the "What if it was your family?" argument - You do realize that the reason courts of Law and judicial calls are decided by impartial entities without any previous relationship with both the victim and the transgressor is precisely to prevent penalties based on emotional responses and apply the best possible punishment rationally, right? To say that the victims should have a saying in the punishment is contrary to most penal principles and it violates Justice itself .

Abstractly speaking, the reason we punish criminals is not because they harmed a specific victim, whether it's Jane or John, it's because they broke the law, constitute a danger to society and reveal personal indifference towards our most sacred rules and values.Criminal law is based on values, values we considered unanimously accepted by most people, and those who don't respect the law are violating and reacting with disdain and apathy towards those values and therefore are not fit to live in our society with complete freedom because they need to be rehabilitated or imprisoned. To make things easier to understand - The reason we punish someone who commits murder is not because "they murdered X" but because that person broke the law saying "Thou shall not murder" - We don't punish the result, we punish the conduct, the action itself - That's why we punish attempted crimes and not just consummated ones. Crime punishes our actions, not the results - The result is merely aggravating and helps define the legal definition of the crime being appreciated, but the reason we punish people is because their actions reveal antagonism towards our values.

(July 7, 2015 at 8:30 am)loganonekenobi Wrote: To me it's not about  punishment but about giving up on getting a person to be a safe part of society.  As a human system of course one could argue that once in a while an innocent person dies and for that reason it's hard to back the death penalty.  however when you have no doubt that Charles Manson (or someone like that) would be ....BAD for the life of others if set free then yes i'm all for it.  It wont deter the real psycopath and maybe those are the ones that should be sent on as it were since they would serve no purpose other than endangering others if they lived.

People in the past used to kill people born with physical disabilities with the excuse that they can't be cured and won't be a functioning part of society and hence disposable. With advances in society and medical sciences we no longer condone those practices and instead are trying our best to help those people become a functional member of our society. Why should we then treat psychopaths with mental disabilities any differently? how do we know that they are beyond any redemption?

Scientists have already begun understanding the physical reasons behind these behaviours like the genes that cause aggression and such, so I have hope that in future we would actually be able to treat and cure these people and bring them back to society.

(July 7, 2015 at 7:59 am)KUSA Wrote: Can someone explain to me what is wrong with revenge?

It's a drug, and like any drug can quickly become addictive and destructive.

(July 7, 2015 at 9:02 am)Aoi Magi Wrote:

(July 7, 2015 at 8:30 am)loganonekenobi Wrote: To me it's not about  punishment but about giving up on getting a person to be a safe part of society.  As a human system of course one could argue that once in a while an innocent person dies and for that reason it's hard to back the death penalty.  however when you have no doubt that Charles Manson (or someone like that) would be ....BAD for the life of others if set free then yes i'm all for it.  It wont deter the real psycopath and maybe those are the ones that should be sent on as it were since they would serve no purpose other than endangering others if they lived.

People in the past used to kill people born with physical disabilities with the excuse that they can't be cured and won't be a functioning part of society and hence disposable. With advances in society and medical sciences we no longer condone those practices and instead are trying our best to help those people become a functional member of our society. Why should we then treat psychopaths with mental disabilities any differently? how do we know that they are beyond any redemption?

Scientists have already begun understanding the physical reasons behind these behaviours like the genes that cause aggression and such, so I have hope that in future we would actually be able to treat and cure these people and bring them back to society.

And in the future I would certainly agree. In a science fiction called Babylone 5 instead of a death penalty they rewrote the persons brain thus killing the offending personality be keeping the life. Once that tech is in place then my vote would change. Of course once the tech is in place the question (vote) would really be a moot point.

(July 7, 2015 at 7:59 am)KUSA Wrote: Can someone explain to me what is wrong with revenge?

If the state does it, it's not revenge; it's vigilantism otherwise. If vigilantism is permitted, why bother having laws at all?

(July 7, 2015 at 8:26 am)Nope Wrote: Intellectually, I do not believe in the death penalty but there is a dark place in me that understands the need to hurt someone who has hurt me. I don't like that part of my personality but it is there.

Agree with this. The rational self may well ascribe to certain principles but when put under stress/pressure these principles can be shelved, ignored or bypassed. I am against the death penalty (for many of the reasons given by posters) and I think revenge is self destructive....but I know that if one of my children was threatened, abused or murdered I would a) want the state to take the ultimate action and/or b) would be prepared to take the law into my own hands. I'm not proud to say this but I believe/know that I would lose control until 'justice' had been served

(July 7, 2015 at 8:26 am)Nope Wrote: Intellectually, I do not believe in the death penalty but there is a dark place in me that understands the need to hurt someone who has hurt me.  I don't like that part of my personality but it is there.

Very true. What we have the urge to do is not always the right thing to do.

(July 7, 2015 at 7:59 am)KUSA Wrote: Can someone explain to me what is wrong with revenge?

It's very biblical.  That, in and of itself, is sufficient.