I have the free will to not believe in such bull as heaven.

More holes in the holy book, how surprising

Not to mention god could've just skipped the earthly part and save the trouble of having to live a life as a 'fallen creature' the first place

I guess he just enjoys being a sadistic prick -_-

No, this is why the damned are eternally damned.

The idea is that God created this world between eternity, this universe/multiverse/plane of existence (pick your favored term) is a temporary blip where time exists and humans are capable of making independent choices. Prior to the act of creation there was no passage of time, and after the end of the world all will return to a period of eternal unchangingness.

Once time ends for you at the apocalypse or death and you lose your free will/the body to do it with wherever you were at the time your stuck as forever. So if you were in Gods good books, you stay there, if you were out of them, you burn.

The one and only exception within Christian answers for this is the Catholic doctrine of purgatory, a temporary position for sinners who weren't good enough for heaven but not bad enough for hell, so they burn for a bit in purgatory but at some undefined time will be allowed to move on into heaven.

I think the general idea is - in heaven everyone will be so blissed out of their nuts, that free will be a non-issue. Paradise - the way believers tend to describe it - is a sort of eternal heroin den.

(July 6, 2015 at 9:46 pm)KUSA Wrote:

(July 6, 2015 at 8:05 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: I don't see how you can have free will in heaven, there is supposed to be no evil or sadness in heaven.

The devil was in heaven and told Yahweh to fuck off.

Good point, obviously the devil displayed free will, so I guess you have yet another contradiction in the bible. Either you have free will in heaven or god has everyone in a constant state of bliss, cant have both.

(July 6, 2015 at 7:47 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote:  To that we might ask why did god think that it was worth all this suffering to give us freewill? To this, they tell us that without freewill, it would be impossible for man to truly love god

This whole love thing becomes impossibly corrupt by the existence of hell. Why do believers want to follow YHWH? Is it because of "true love" or is it because of fear of hell?

Also, why does YHWH need "true love"? Sounds like an insecure prick to me.

(July 7, 2015 at 2:20 am)Neimenovic Wrote: More holes in the holy book, how surprising

Not to mention god could've just skipped the earthly part and save the trouble of having to live a life as a 'fallen creature' the first place

I guess he just enjoys being a sadistic prick -_-

Well, if he'd skipped the earthly part, he wouldn't have been able to watch all those people masturbating, and that would have been no fun.

If it was so important to him, he could have run it as a simulation and watched it (this pointless Earth scenario). That would have saved putting us poor saps through it like so many wet flannel sock puppets with insides.

But no, it's no fun unless he knows someone is really suffering. What a douche.

(July 7, 2015 at 5:24 am)Metis Wrote: No, this is why the damned are eternally damned.

The idea is that God created this world between eternity, this universe/multiverse/plane of existence (pick your favored term) is a temporary blip where time exists and humans are capable of making independent choices. Prior to the act of creation there was no passage of time, and after the end of the world all will return to a period of eternal unchangingness.

Once time ends for you at the apocalypse or death and you lose your free will/the body to do it with wherever you were at the time your stuck as forever. So if you were in Gods good books, you stay there, if you were out of them, you burn.

The one and only exception within Christian answers for this is the Catholic doctrine of purgatory, a temporary position for sinners who weren't good enough for heaven but not bad enough for hell, so they burn for a bit in purgatory but at some undefined time will be allowed to move on into heaven.

Then eternity/heaven is a place where everything is frozen. If I but blink my eyes or think any thought at all, that is movement and movement is change, so I've broken eternity and started time.

Free will in heaven serves no purpose since I won't have to choose between hookers and blow knowing there's plenty of both.