.....and the holy spirit too. Up the ass, with a rusty chainsaw. And its mother too c:

You really got a thing for its mother huh!

(July 8, 2015 at 5:56 pm)tonechaser77 Wrote: If you are using slavery as imagery for not having any will of your own AND agreeing that this is the correct way to view your relationship with god does this make you in agreement of slavery now? If this is the best design of imagery a god could come up with then that doesn’t say much about god. 

Why? Because you have a very narrow view of slavery and God is not speaking directly to you? What of the billions who came before who understood that the word slavery meant to have much broader applications than what you have come to understand?

Quote:Paraphrased argument: “Either you are a slave to sin or a slave to me and if you are a slave to me it actually brings you much freedom even though my definition of freedom is not to have any mind of your own.”

Not bad, except you left out you truly don't have a mind of your own now, just an illusion of it.

Quote:This sounds more like antiquated views of pro-slavery being squeezed into a false metaphor to fit certain ideas of how god worked not vice versa.

how is the metaphore considered to be false?

Quote:The fact that you support this ideal must mean you still support slavery today.

WE Do still support the biblical definition of slavery today, even the 18th century picture most of you have adopted as it's singular meaning. "Modern" city/western life would not be possible if not for slavery. So what does pop culture do? Does it truly abolish slavery? no. It simply renames the slave and His labor and then everything is ok with pop morality. Even though the work and actual physical labor for little to no pay/with little to no chance of a life style change for the modern slave exists.

Quote:So the cognitive dissonance lies in your court. If you say you don’t agree with slavery today, what mental gymnastics do you perform to not agree to neo-slavery but agree to being a slave to god?

All I have done to accept Slavery is to use the biblical definition of the greek dullos which includes but not limited to what you identify as a slave. A slave/Servant/Endentured Servant/Employee all = the greek word Dullos. A Dullos is one who will is superceeded by that of His Master. I have surrendered my Will and seek that of God. Which believe it or not has provided me with far more than I could have ever imagined for myself.

Quote:In reality, we don’t know there is a god and there certainly doesn’t appear to be any justifiable evidence.

That's not true God provides all the evidence we could possible need for a life time if we simply A/S/K for it.

(July 8, 2015 at 7:14 pm)Atheist_BG Wrote: There's no free will in heaven nor in hell. "Good guys go to heaven, bad guys go to hell. Period." and that's it! You can't choose where you wanna go, so that's not free will at all. Someone else is choosing for you - again. If there are no pretty boys in heaven, then that's no heaven at all, it's a torture! So keep your heaven and I'm going to hell after the pretty boys!  

If heaven and hell did actually exist, that is.

You guys are the first to point out a failed Christian life.. (What's his name.. Duggar) being the most recent. But the thing is Duggar is not an example of a bad Christian. He is an example of a good one. Why? Because Christian's aren't 'good guys' nor do they deserve to goto Heaven for what they have done. Your mixing too many other religions in with Chriistianity and you have lost it's meaning.

In Christiianity 'Good guys' don't goto Heaven. Redemed people go. If they were Good they would not have to had sought redemption in the first place. What duggar did, Sin, Repent, sin Repent, Sin repent, submitted to different programs and authority to help him with his sin is exactly what makes Him a Christian.. Not the fact he can hide his sin from you so other think he lives a perfect life.

(July 9, 2015 at 5:55 am)Rhondazvous Wrote:

(July 8, 2015 at 4:39 pm)Drich Wrote: The bible may not have to mention the words free will inorder for people to create doctrine and worship God as if they did indeed have free will. Clearly. The problem though is in Biblically described Christianity we are all described as slaves, and as we have hashed out many many times now. A slave's will is not his own. He is not Free. His will is bound to that of His Master. the question Christianity originally posited is not one of whether or not we have 'free will' but who do you serve/Who is your master. God or Sin.

"Free will" was introduced as a scape goat to answer the hard questions. However the problem is it conflicts with who we all are in relation to God, and it creates inconsistancies in scripture. however if we learn to speak where the bible speaks and remain silent where the bible is silent then those inconsistancies go away.

John 8:31-32
"To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples.
Then you will know the truth and the truth will make you free."

Jesus and Paul seem to have a difference of opinion here. Don't know whose slave you are Drich, since if you're following Jesus, the man said you will be free.

Free from what should be you question... If you had (or simply kept reading) you would clearly see that the freedom Jesus was speaking of was freedom from sin and the consenquences of sin.

33 They answered, “We are Abraham’s descendants. And we have never been slaves. So why do you say that we will be free?”

34 Jesus said, “The truth is, everyone who sins is a slave—a slave to sin.

Jumped ahead after reading the first four pages. Forgive me!

How can you sin in heaven? Like, the actual going about and sinning. You can't murder in heaven (sorry theists), I imagine you can't steal or rob (are there earthly possessions?), reproduction is out so I imagine any sexual sins are out, so what's left? Just denouncing God, but that just doesn't make sense once you're in heaven, unless heaven is unbearable.

(July 9, 2015 at 11:21 am)Drich Wrote: Your mixing too many other religions in with Chriistianity and you have lost it's meaning.

All religions are the same bullshit and I really don't care whether I'm mixing religions or not.
Btw, pray your god to give you some sense of humor.

Christianity has already mixed a lot of religions to make somethign of its own, so it doesn't really have room to judge.

(July 9, 2015 at 11:11 am)Drich Wrote:

(July 8, 2015 at 5:56 pm)tonechaser77 Wrote: If you are using slavery as imagery for not having any will of your own AND agreeing that this is the correct way to view your relationship with god does this make you in agreement of slavery now? If this is the best design of imagery a god could come up with then that doesn’t say much about god. 

Why? Because you have a very narrow view of slavery and God is not speaking directly to you? What of the billions who came before who understood that the word slavery meant to have much broader applications than what you have come to understand?

Quote:Paraphrased argument: “Either you are a slave to sin or a slave to me and if you are a slave to me it actually brings you much freedom even though my definition of freedom is not to have any mind of your own.”

Not bad, except you left out you truly don't have a mind of your own now, just an illusion of it.

Quote:This sounds more like antiquated views of pro-slavery being squeezed into a false metaphor to fit certain ideas of how god worked not vice versa.

how is the metaphore considered to be false?

Quote:The fact that you support this ideal must mean you still support slavery today.

WE Do still support the biblical definition of slavery today, even the 18th century picture most of you have adopted as it's singular meaning. "Modern" city/western life would not be possible if not for slavery. So what does pop culture do? Does it truly abolish slavery? no. It simply renames the slave and His labor and then everything is ok with pop morality. Even though the work and actual physical labor for little to no pay/with little to no chance of a life style change for the modern slave exists.

Quote:So the cognitive dissonance lies in your court. If you say you don’t agree with slavery today, what mental gymnastics do you perform to not agree to neo-slavery but agree to being a slave to god?

All I have done to accept Slavery is to use the biblical definition of the greek dullos which includes but not limited to what you identify as a slave. A slave/Servant/Endentured Servant/Employee all = the greek word Dullos. A Dullos is one who will is superceeded by that of His Master. I have surrendered my Will and seek that of God. Which believe it or not has provided me with far more than I could have ever imagined for myself. 

Quote:In reality, we don’t know there is a god and there certainly doesn’t appear to be any justifiable evidence.

That's not true God provides all the evidence we could possible need for a life time if we simply A/S/K for it.

1.) My view of slavery is not narrow by any means. It's the same view that others held when they finally realized this is not the way the world should work. I can't believe you honestly expect anyone to believe that people support biblical slavery today by renaming slavery to "work". So no, I won't accept your false equivocation. The tenants were far different. The biblical form of slavery was a clear violation to human rights and the consequences for disobedience were FAR more immoral then consequences for disobedience at work under a modern U.S. like society. The last time I checked my employer couldn't beat me if I didn't show up to work. 

2.) The metaphor itself is a true metaphor. The idea behind is what is inexplicably false and should be admonished. The theology behind the slave / eunuch cast system represented in the OT is quite clear in showing the once slave willingly return to his master to become his literal property and be castrated as a eunuch. This is big brother 101 like I mentioned before. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is good. Questioning is bad. 

3.) If your will is superceded to your master, god, then we have a real problem because i know you're going to start with "knowing god's will" by what he says in the bible. How do you know it's actually his word? Because the bible says so. But why believe the bible? Because it's the infallible word of god.....and here we go with the same old circular arguments. The bible is in fact, the reason I become a non-believer. When it's looked at in the correct manner, conflicting stories, atrocities, misogyny, injustice, cruelty and violence etc. it's easy to see that it is not the inspired word of god, but written by many humans, with differing viewpoints, all of which have been the cause of mass confusion. It's why there are so many sects of christianity. The can't all be right...and how do you decide which one is? Oh I know,  A/S/K.  No, that's nonsense because the answer you receive is purely subjective to what you think anyway. It's an interpretation and who's to say you're correct and the person sitting next to you isn't? 

Sorry Brich but the rationalizations just don't add up regardless of the spin you or anyone else puts on them.

I remember going to work. You drop a dish, and the boss beats you half to death with a skillet. Hard times.