When I left the church, years ago, they of course sent emissaries to try to bring me back into the fold.

I endured their mealy-mouthed condescension for about 20 minutes or so,
but then I interrupted, first with a polite acknowledgment of their beliefs and good intentions,
but then with a firm clarification that they were wasting their time and that our beliefs are diametrically opposed.

The woman was countrified into silence,
but the man fired up a bit, and told me that I was "mad at God".

My reply:


" No, I am not mad at God.  I am mad at you.  I would never blame God for the idiocy of Christians.
Once, Alcohol was your crutch, and now Jesus is.  Good for you, whatever works.
But I personally never relied upon booze, and I don't need to rely upon Jesus, either.
It's not my desire to sound judgmental (since that is one of the things I hated most about Christianity)
but you obviously need to have it spelled out for you that not everyone is like you. "

That pretty much ended the interview.

(July 11, 2015 at 8:43 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(July 11, 2015 at 4:31 pm)Randy Carson Wrote: I name some names, they deny it, I look stupid...

Nah. Not gonna do it.

Just take off your atheist-colored glasses and read the posts without bias. You'll see.

That's why you include their quotes...

IF in the end, you find that God does exist .... will you unconditionally accept Him as your God?

some of the responses

(May 31, 2015 at 1:39 pm)Napoléon Wrote: No.  

(May 31, 2015 at 1:49 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Nope, the fact that I'm not christian has nothing to do with whether or not the christian god exists.  I have an ethical objection.  That's what I find so delicious about my interactions with christers desperate to convince me, btw.

(May 31, 2015 at 2:07 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: No.

Hope your kid can top that.

Basically, these fools are saying even if they see God personally they still wouldn't accept him.... where's the logic in that?

This proves there is something else behind their "atheism" other than simply "having no belief"

What this proves is that we have a conscience.

We don't believe in god because there is no evidence that such a being exists. The question asked was suppose (a purely hypothetical situation) he did, would we accept him. There is a difference between believing and accepting. I believe Dylan Roof exist. Does that mean I'm a fool if I don't unconditionally accept him? Invite him for tea, maybe The god character depicted in the bible has killed for more people, given fathers instructions on how to sell their daughters into sexual slavery, sanctioned the enslavement of non-Jews, demanded the genocide of non-Jews and other atrocities. How can we answer this hypothetical question with anything but a resounding "No?"

I guess it's a sticking point for some people, they can't imagine how you could be aware of a god and not toady around it.

(July 12, 2015 at 7:26 am)robvalue Wrote: I guess it's a sticking point for some people, they can't imagine how you could be aware of a god and not toady around it.

And some people are just trolls.

(July 11, 2015 at 9:10 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(July 11, 2015 at 9:03 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: Didn't see the part that says "according to your big book of Holy Horseshit"?

Which he has clearly stated that is based off of other religions, is contradictory, and is written by goat herders....

In other words, HE doesn't trust that source, fine, but then HE doesn't get to use that source to define what God is.


So he gave a reason why he's angry at God..... the point is he's angry at God.

You really had to do some fantastic mental acrobatics to reach that conclusion. Maybe you're the one who's angry at god and come here to make him look like a fool who sends idiots to represent him. That's not a put down, that's an observation.

(July 12, 2015 at 6:33 am)Napoléon Wrote:

(July 11, 2015 at 8:43 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Basically, these fools are saying even if they see God personally they still wouldn't accept him.... where's the logic in that?

This proves there is something else behind their "atheism" other than simply "having no belief"

Listen you dense motherfucker. Don't you dare try to speak for me. Yet again you show why you're the biggest prick on this forum with this bullshit misrepresentation.


The question is "IF in the end, you find that God does exist .... will you unconditionally accept Him as your God?"

Bolded the important bit.

If I find out that the god of the bible exists after I die, you can damn well expect me and any other fucker with even a minimal amount of morality to question the actions that are accounted in his book, the bible (and I'm only assuming that because the person who asked the question was christian). Only a slave with no backbone would blindly accept a master so fucked up. That would not be me 'unconditionally accepting him'. If I were to find out he were actually real (which for the record I don't think is going to happen), then that does not automatically mean I would unconditionally accept him as my god.

The morality of the god you believe in is bizarre as far as I'm concerned. You are telling me you would blindly "accept" a god who promotes slavery, sacrifice, genocide and all the other fucked up shit in your little book, yet you have the audacity to call me a fool? You're a fucking chump. A slave if you would unconditionally accept such a maniacal overlord. And fuck you if you would genuinely do so, frankly nutjobs like you make me sick. You are basically admitting you cannot think for yourself. Imbecile.

Also, there is nothing else 'behind my atheism' besides the fact I don't believe in god. What exactly was it that gave you that impression besides my one word answer to a loaded question? Why don't I believe in god? Because the evidence for one is severely lacking. Now the question asked makes me assume for the sake of argument that god is real. I'm obviously going to have other reasons to not 'accept' god if I assume that is the case aren't I? Although you'd obviously say no because your morality is fucked and you blindly accept being a slave. Moron.

I'm Agnostic, myself, so I *technically* allow for the possibility of god existing

...but what I completely reject is the idea that God and Religion have ANYTHING to do with each other.

The only God I can fathom as being likely to exist at all
is a God who is a sort of super-scientist, if you will, without morals altogether,
neither wishing us good nor evil,
with no intention of rewarding nor punishing us,
but simply pursuing his experiments.

If He exists, and He gave us life,
I accept that life has good and bad in it,
and that is the nature of Life, for ALL creatures.

I lean toward the likelihood that there is NO God at all,
but if there DID turn out to be a God, this is how I think it would be:


Let's imagine that the world ended tomorrow, and we were all to discover that there IS, in fact, a God.

I imagine the Theists would be rubbing their hands together with glee,
waiting to watch all the Atheists be cast into the pit of fire...

And I imagine that the Atheists would be temporarily paralyzed with apprehension, like,
" Oh, shit....who knew those religious morons had it right??  Now what do I do!? "

BUT,

I then imagine all the Theists rushing to greet God, and eagerly expecting to be welcomed and rewarded.

God just looks at them blankly.

Then God looks past them and sees us, the Atheists and Agnostics, and sees guys like Hitchens and Dawkins,
and He notices that we all look a bit scared.


God hurries forward, reaching Hitchens and Dawkins first, and extends His hand in welcome, saying:

" I read your books and they were brilliant.  I'd really like to buy you gentlemen a pint and sit down for a chin wag sometime. "

Both the Theists and the Atheists are astounded.

the Theists were expecting the Atheists to be punished, and here was God showing INTEREST in them;

The Atheists were shitting themselves for a second, having realized that God in fact exists after all,
but now their fears are allayed, and they're finding that just because God exists,
doesn't mean he cares about Religion!

The Atheists begin to recover themselves quickly, and realize, with a growing sense of relief,
and amusement, that God is NOT going to destroy them....even though they were skeptics about God's existence.

God doesn't seem to care whether people believed in Him, or not, apparently.  Surprise, surprise....God is bigger than such pettiness.

In fact, all He DOES seem to care about, is that some humans actually bothered to use the brains He gave them,
to marvel at His wonderful system of Evolution, and His brilliant, physics-based Universe.

As it turns out, God, funnily enough, is intrigued by the critical thinking of the Atheists,
and their admiration and devotion to studying the Science of the universe He created,
and being patient, humble, and honest enough to not allow their disciplined pursuit of the TRUTH
to be biased by silly BELIEFS.


The Theists have difficulty processing this....they are baffled and begin asking God about their heavenly rewards and so forth,
and why He isn't casting these heathen Atheists into Hell???

God looks bored, and a bit annoyed that the clueless Theists keep interrupting his riveting chat with the Atheists,
like the insecure girl who can't accept that the hot guy are the bar isn't interested in her willingness to compromise herself.

God, quite frankly, doesn't consider it to be his problem,

Obviously the entitled Theists cherished certain expectations of God...

...but God, quite frankly, doesn't consider their expectations to be His problem.

He brushes them off.


The Atheists, on the other hand, are beginning to relax again, and are quietly tickled that things turned out this way.

For a split second, yes....they thought their goose was cooked...but now, irony of ironies,
it turns out that Yes, there IS in fact a God....but God is...well...kind of an Atheist!  LOL!!

That concludes my illustration, and brings me to my point:

You asked,

" IF in the end, you find that God does exist .... will you unconditionally accept Him as your God? "

I wonder if Theists will unconditionally accept God, if it turns out that God exists, but wasn't what they thought He'd be.

If they think God loves them...and it turns out He doesn't?

If they have been told that God has prepared a place for them in Heaven....and it turns out that He hasn't?

If it turns out that the afterlife is not separated into Heaven or Hell, at all,
will Mother Teresa be okay with Charles Manson being at the party, too?

Will Theists be able to accept it, if it turns out that there IS a God...but that He had NOTHING to do with the writing of the Bible, or the Qu'ran, or the Torah, or the Book of Mormon, nor any other so-called "holy writ"?

If it turns out that God doesn't care if you are secretly homosexual, after all?

That there is neither rewards waiting for the righteous,
nor punishments waiting for the wicked?

That bad things happened in life for no reason, after all???

Will Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church be okay with it, if it turns out that not only is Heaven full of gay men,
but that the 12 guys following Jesus around were not so much "apostles" as they were "groupies"???

Christians seem to think "accepting God unconditionally" only goes one direction.

(July 11, 2015 at 10:17 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(July 11, 2015 at 9:31 pm)Esquilax Wrote: It's simple, so I understand why you wouldn't get it: if we see that god exists, that alone is not a reason to accept him as our lord and superior.

You've gotten one thing right...it IS simple. A being who created the universe out of nothing and to who you owe your whole existence, IS reason alone to accept him as your "lord and superior" (the two are synonymous). Add to that, the fact that he was willing to take on human form and suffer horribly, so that he could adopt you as a son and sit with him in his throne, is even more reason to accept him as your (lord and superior).

Are you saying that you never considered your parents as your superior? How are they somehow more worthy of being your superior than God?

You've got one thing wrong. The god of the bible did not create the universe. For over 500 years the church has known that the biblical creation story bears not the slightest resemblance to the universe we live in. If the true creator stepped into our world in a tangible way, he would not be the god of the bible and he might not even want to be worshipped.

As for what the bible claims he suffered, after the way god set Adam up, that's like a doctor who gives you something to make you sick then expects you to be grateful when he makes you well.

(July 11, 2015 at 9:31 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Oh, but Randy? Don't think I missed you agreeing with this louse back there. That's disappointing; we might disagree, but I always figured you as having some modicum of intelligence to go with that.

Huggy pointed out some of the responses that people have posted which appear to contradict the "I'm not angry at God" position that many claim. I said thanks. Big whoop.

But it occurs to me why it's so important for folks in this forum to deny being angry at God...because that unveils them as actually believing that He exists. How can you be angry at something that simply doesn't exist?

Now, don't get me wrong (like that's not gonna happen anyway), I know that there are quite a few members of the forum who are not angry atheists. You can tell by their calm, casual responses and posts that they are simply not all wound up. They're just few and far between, aren't they?

Others (and I would probably include you in this group, frankly) are REALLY aggressive and pissed off. Or am I completely wrong about you?

(July 12, 2015 at 6:33 am)Napoléon Wrote: Listen you dense motherfucker. Don't you dare try to speak for me. Yet again you show why you're the biggest prick on this forum with this bullshit misrepresentation.


The question is "IF in the end, you find that God does exist .... will you unconditionally accept Him as your God?"

Bolded the important bit.

If I find out that the god of the bible exists after I die, you can damn well expect me and any other fucker with even a minimal amount of morality to question the actions that are accounted in his book, the bible (and I'm only assuming that because the person who asked the question was christian).

First of all, who are you to question the creator of the universe? Think about that foolishness for a second.

Have you read the Bible? If you had then you'd realize the Bible forms a complete picture of God. What you atheist do is cherry pick from quotes you find off a website without any understanding of what you're looking at. It would be like taking a jigsaw puzzle and thinking you know the whole picture from just 3 or four pieces.

For instance, did you know that Jesus Christ is portrayed in the beginning of the Bible in the Garden of Eden? If not, then you have no understanding of the Bible and should probably sit down and shut up.

(July 12, 2015 at 6:33 am)Napoléon Wrote: Only a slave with no backbone would blindly accept a master so fucked up. That would not be me 'unconditionally accepting him'. If I were to find out he were actually real (which for the record I don't think is going to happen), then that does not automatically mean I would unconditionally accept him as my god.

Spoken like a true internet warrior.

(July 12, 2015 at 6:33 am)Napoléon Wrote: The morality of the god you believe in is bizarre as far as I'm concerned. You are telling me you would blindly "accept" a god who promotes slavery, sacrifice, genocide and all the other fucked up shit in your little book, yet you have the audacity to call me a fool? You're a fucking chump. A slave if you would unconditionally accept such a maniacal overlord. And fuck you if you would genuinely do so, frankly nutjobs like you make me sick. You are basically admitting you cannot think for yourself. Imbecile.

Also, there is nothing else 'behind my atheism' besides the fact I don't believe in god. What exactly was it that gave you that impression besides my one word answer to a loaded question? Why don't I believe in god? Because the evidence for one is severely lacking. Now the question asked makes me assume for the sake of argument that god is real. I'm obviously going to have other reasons to not 'accept' god if I assume that is the case aren't I? Although you'd obviously say no because your morality is fucked and you blindly accept being a slave. Moron.

If God is as "evil" as you believe him to be, you ARE a fool to defy him...you have a choice between eternal life and everlasting damnation and you choose the latter..

where the maggots never die and the fire never goes out. - Mark 9:48

You know what? I take it back, you sound like a genius!

Out of curiosity, are you American?

(July 11, 2015 at 11:10 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(July 11, 2015 at 10:44 pm)Starvald Demelain Wrote: I've got plenty of right. Might doesn't make right in my book; I don't believe your god exists, but if he did I sure as fuck wouldn't recognize him as my lord and master. It's an ethics thing. Just because someone/thing has the power to hurt you doesn't mean you have to worship them.

Ethics? The only reason you have any sense of morality is because that's what you were brought up in a society based on law and order. Remove the law from society and access to basic needs, and watch people kill each other in the streets over a scrap of food.

Moses gave the Hebrews the law to show that the Law couldn't be kept due to human nature. Jesus's purpose was to change human nature to into Love (agape). Love is the only Law, if everyone truly loved their fellow man, their would be no need for law.

Long before Moses there were the Precepts of Ma'at, the Instructions of Prah, the Emerald Tablets of Thoth, the Iwa Pele. The Jews had a lot of material to draw on.

Granted, some things do seem to have originate with Moses. The slave system in America was based on the law of Moses. The law of Moses is more than just the Ten Commandments. All the commandments for genocide, and misogyny and slavery found in the Pentateuch is all a part of the Mosaic law.

Anyone who looks to the bible for ethical instruction is very sick in the head.