(July 15, 2015 at 12:09 am)Randy Carson Wrote: The answer to "why" is because God is also perfectly just. And perfect justice demands a redress.

Consequently, at the cross, perfect justice and perfect mercy met.

Which is a contradiction in terms: mercy is a suspension of justice. Therefore, it cannot be just to be indiscriminately merciful.

I just need to check:

Are we all living on the same planet? Do I need some special glasses to see all this magic stuff?

(July 15, 2015 at 12:09 am)Randy Carson Wrote: The answer to "why" is because God is also perfectly just. And perfect justice demands a redress.

Consequently, at the cross, perfect justice and perfect mercy met.

There is neither justice nor mercy in the cross.

God set Adam up. For him to then condemn the whole human species for the so-called sin of a man who had no concept of good and evil is injustice.

It's not mercy to forgive people who should never have been condemned in the first place.

To believe that this is justice is to believe that might makes right with god. To believe god had a great plan in sacrificing Jesus, you have to believe that the end justifies the means.

(July 15, 2015 at 1:17 pm)robvalue Wrote: I just need to check:

Are we all living on the same planet? Do I need some special glasses to see all this magic stuff?

Oh, er all live on the same planet, but we don't all live in the same world.

To understand the magic, what you have to do is quit trying to understand it, put your brain on hold and just believe.

It's just like the man said in 1984 (George Orwell's novel). double-speak requires that one hold two opposing views and just believe them both. I was shocked whn I red that because about 25 years before, a bible professor said the exact same thing about dealing with the bible.

The stupid thing is our theist boys here will take that as sound advice.

(July 15, 2015 at 12:00 am)Randy Carson Wrote:

(July 14, 2015 at 9:46 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Groan. <facepalm> smh   Pathetic.  But ok, let's have some more fun.

Here's one for you, Randy . . . let's see your interpretation of this verse: Luke 9, verse 27 (Jesus, speaking to the 12 and others after the loaves and fishes shindig)

"But I say to you truthfully, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.”

This verse, as you well know, follows verse 26 which describes "the Son of Man returning in the glory of God", so we're not 

talking about Judean historical events 33 - 70 c.e.  People listening were going to be alive at the second coming.  So someonewalking this earth is over 2000 years old now.  And still waiting.

This is a somewhat common misinterpretation, so let's take a closer look. Here is the passage in context:

Quote:20 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Peter answered, “God’s Messiah.”

21 Jesus strictly warned them not to tell this to anyone. 22 And he said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.”

23 Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it. 25 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self? 26 Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

27 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”

Luke has pulled together a number of related thoughts in this passage. In vv. 20-21, Jesus asks the disciples who they think that he is. Peter answers, "God's Messiah", and Jesus warns them not tell anyone. In v. 22, he goes on to predict his own death and describes the cost of discipleship in vv. 23-26.

THEN, in v. 27 Jesus tells the disciples that some of them will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God. But does the "kingdom of God" refer back to the previous verses? No. Jesus is referring to the birth of the Church in general (which occurred on Pentecost) as well as the destruction of Jerusalem in particular. The downfall of the city (AD 70) will mark a turning point in salvation history that signals the end of the Old Covenant kingdom and the establishment of the New Covenant.

Hope this helps.

It's really astounding the hoops people will jump through to explain how "it doesn't say what people think it says, and only WE know the real answer".  Basing their lives on a bunch of brainless, mistranslated fairy tails that they believe are literal truth and actual history.  There are lots of reasons why I don't accept this interpretation. There are better reasons why I won't waste any more of my time on this.  Be well.

(July 15, 2015 at 12:40 pm)Rhondazvous Wrote:

(July 14, 2015 at 4:43 pm)Godschild Wrote: It's hard to take one serious when they use such an analogy as fire is cold, when Jesus plainly speaks of the fires of hell as you used it in another thread causes smoke and we all know that it takes heat to due such. I'm not mad at reality, that would be stupid reality is what it is and has no control of life. It is in fact the picture of life.

GC

Are too.
Am not.
Are too.
Am not.
Mommy, he hit me.
Liar! Liar! Pants on fire!

Just no way to get  decent discussion out of spoiled brats.

GC

(July 15, 2015 at 4:20 pm)Godschild Wrote: Just no way to get  decent discussion out of spoiled brats.

GC

There also seems to be no way to get decent discussion out of primitive, superstitious fallacy-chasers, either. Go figure.

(July 14, 2015 at 10:07 pm)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote:

(July 14, 2015 at 4:35 pm)Godschild Wrote: Why you write it down and present it for all to see, most atheist here parrot each other, so much so nothing new is being added to good conversation by atheist. Look at your language, that seems to me to be an indication of what's in your heart.

GC

That I'm sick and fucking tired of assholes like you Huggies and the Randy cathy-lick coming here and telling me what I believe. I think you ass-hats are the only ones who haven't figured it out yet. I'm not mad at your gawd GC. I'm just sick to death of you willfully ignorant imbeciles telling me what I think, feel and believe. You want to read that as hate? Feel free to continue being that willfully ignorant.

No need to get your dander up son, and this isn't your house nor mine it's a place of discussion and debate, opinions are a big part of that, and it's my opinion that some of the atheist here hate God, if you were to read what they say minus your bias you might see that also. I believe what I do and state honestly what I believe, I do not try to hide the fact I'm a believer in Jesus Christ and do not care if I'm ridiculed, I do not pretend to be something I'm not. If an atheist was to admit they were mad (hate) God they would be scorned in this place, so logically if they are, they will hide it, even from themselves. Maybe you are not mad at God, but you are certainly mad at all you named above and why, you stated it, you believe you have more right to be here than those you named.   

GC

(July 14, 2015 at 4:53 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(July 14, 2015 at 4:35 pm)Godschild Wrote: Why you write it down and present it for all to see, most atheist here parrot each other, so much so nothing new is being added to good conversation by atheist. Look at your language, that seems to me to be an indication of what's in your heart.

GC

It's not our fault that theists have failed to bring anything new to the table, only the same old long refuted arguments.

Why should we come up with anything new? We're only responding to theist's arguments.

Same old theist arguments, the same refutations still work.

I've never seen you refute a thing, bashing is your style.

GC

(July 15, 2015 at 4:49 pm)Godschild Wrote: No need to get your dander up son, and this isn't your house nor mine it's a place of discussion and debate, opinions are a big part of that, and it's my opinion that some of the atheist here hate God, if you were to read what they say minus your bias you might see that also.

Okay... you need to stop this. All you theists who try this shit, and I've seen it twice in this very thread, need to quit using this scummy little tactic. "If you don't agree with me, there's something wrong with you," might fly in your churches, but out here we can spot it a mile off, and frankly you should be ashamed of needing to deploy such mealy mouthed nonsense. You are all better than this argument: let it go.