Question:

If Christians/Muslims whatever have the truth, and atheists are dumb as shit and wrong, how come it's atheists on this forum constantly pointing out logical fallacies theists are using, and very rarely the other way round? (And when it is the other way round, it's often a misunderstanding of what the fallacy is.)

You shouldn't need them if you have the goods.

Who cares about logical fallacies, and who doesn't?

You know, if I possessed knowledge of the ultimate meaning of life and the absolute truth, my wild guess I would be pretty satisfied with that alone. But believers never are. And they won't be, until everyone on earth converts. Because that's how mind viruses work, and religion is nothing more than that: a nasty thought virus, getting past the critical thinking defense and nesting in the victim's emotions, pretending to be a safety blanket, attacking the most vulnerable parts.

It's pretty fucking sick to me, personally.

(July 17, 2015 at 1:00 pm)Neimenovic Wrote: You know, if I possessed knowledge of the ultimate meaning of life and the absolute truth, my wild guess I would be pretty satisfied with that alone. But believers never are. And they won't be, until everyone on earth converts. Because that's how mind viruses work, and religion is nothing more than that: a nasty thought virus, getting past the critical thinking defense and nesting in the victim's emotions, pretending to be a safety blanket, attacking the most vulnerable parts.

It's pretty fucking sick to me, personally.

Oh, but they do it because they love you . . .

I wonder how the theists here would react if I converted? But not to Christianity, obviously. I'll become a Hindu. Apparently that's better? Being utterly wrong is preferable to withholding judgement until there are some facts.

(July 17, 2015 at 1:28 pm)robvalue Wrote: I wonder how the theists here would react if I converted? But not to Christianity, obviously. I'll become a Hindu. Apparently that's better? Being utterly wrong is preferable to withholding judgement until there are some facts.

I sometimes wonder what would happen if I converted to christianity, but for utterly despicable reasons. Like if I came on one day and began extolling the virtues of Jesus on the basis that the old testament narrative justifies racism, stuff like that. If I'd converted to a Westboro Baptist-esque holy hate machine, would I be given the same pass that christians often give each other because I'm now a member of the club? Would the immoral nature of my conversion matter more than the fact that the conversion happened?

(July 14, 2015 at 5:29 pm)Esquilax Wrote: I don't actually care; you feel free to write your fanfiction and to pretend that it's the only possible interpretation of the canon there is if it makes you happy. My point still stands, and no amount of "I believe this, therefore you're bound to do so as well," is going to rebut that.

Are you saying you never sin, by the way? You're completely sinless, like Jesus, even though he was supposed to be unique in that respect? Because if you keep sinning even after your repentance then there's really nothing stopping the husband from beating his wife under the same pressures that cause you to sin too, while still being saved.

*emphasis mine*
It's not MY interpretation, I'm telling you exactly what the bible says, the bible is not open to personal interpretation, scripture must be interpreted with scripture. The thing is, you complain if i post a bunch of scriptures, fine, from now on I'll provide the scriptures.

As you recall, it's my position that sin and sickness ARE comparable, in fact leprosy was a representation of sin, when Namaan went the prophet Elisha to be healed of leprosy, Elisha told him to go dip seven time in the Jordan river, a foreshadowing of being baptized for the REMISSION of sin.

Jeremiah 8
19 Behold the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people because of them that dwell in a far country: Is not the Lord in Zion? is not her king in her? Why have they provoked me to anger with their graven images, and with strange vanities?
20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.
21 For the hurt of the daughter of my people am I hurt; I am black; astonishment hath taken hold on me.
22 Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?



Here God is comparing the worship of false gods to searching for other "cures" for their problems.


Proverbs 29:1
He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/remedy

Quote:remedy
[rem-i-dee]

   Synonyms
   Examples
   Word Origin

noun, plural remedies.
1. something that cures or relieves a disease or bodily disorder; a healing medicine, application, or treatment.

In case you don't think that scripture is referring to sin, I'll provide the new testament version.


Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,


So IF you continue to DISBELIEVE (SIN) after learning the truth there is no REMEDEY (redemption) for you.

This is apparent in the story of Moses bringing the Hebrews out of Egypt by preforming Great miracles, yet they still refused to believe and God destroyed them.


Jude 1:5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.


*As a side note Jesus referred to the 2 million Hebrews that came out of Egypt as being "dead", when Jesus refers to someone as "dead" he means eternally separated from God, in other words, in hell, otherwise he'd refer to them as "sleeping".

Now I reiterate, Sin is not an ACT it is a CONDITION, just like sickness is a condition. If you hold the notion that "vicarious redemption" is immoral, than you show that you are in fact a hypocrite by utilizing medicines based on the same concept of "vicarious redemption", others being sacrificed in order for you to live.

(July 14, 2015 at 5:29 pm)Esquilax Wrote: I don't care about the nature of sin, I don't think sin is a viable concept, I think it's a trumped up charge leveled against humanity by preachers desperate to capitalize on our guilt. And if sin causes immoral acts then you're just sort of splitting hairs to avoid answering the meat of what I said.

Like I stated earlier, sin is a CONDITION, you were born an unbeliever (sinner) that is the cause of immoral acts. If you believe in God you do not sin, period.


1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Say we are standing in front of a closed door, and I tell you "don't open the door because there is a bear behind it, but you procced to open it anyway, that shows you clearly didn't believe me, and you get what you deserve.

likewise, if you continue to act immorally after learning the truth there is no hope for you (no more sacrifice for sin is available for you)

(July 14, 2015 at 5:29 pm)Esquilax Wrote: "That's just the way it is," is not a compelling argument.

It's also not even a good statement, because you're proposing that there was absolutely no better way to run things than this one, and that's just garbage. I mean, it's toilets all the way down; I can think up a better system just off the top of my head. How about god just decree a different, better thing? It's his decree, right? Or hey, how about he abolish sin, which is within his power and consistent with his character given how much he hates sin. Once again, this is just you retrofitting the facts so that your pre-existing belief that everything in the bible is completely justified remains intact. The fact that you did so this lazily is really just the confirmation that you'll accept any shitty argument so long as it turns out you were right.

So now you know better than God, is that it? God should just abolish sin and give everyone a free pass?

I don't know if you have kids or not, but how is giving your kids a free pass to do anything they want good parenting? If you want to teach your kids the value of money you'd make them get a job, If you just supplied them with endless amounts of cash, does that help or hurt them? I suppose you remember that case of "affluenza" suffered by the spoiled kid that killed four people.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/natio...n/5242173/

Quote:Couch's attorneys used an "affluenza" defense at his trial last year, saying the then 16-year-old had grown up with a sense of entitlement and developed poor judgment after being coddled by his wealthy parents.

It's our experience's we have in this mortal life that gives us the appreciation of eternal life.

How do you appreciate a sunny day if there are no cloudy ones? Would the term "sunny day" even exist if it's always sunny? Can truth exist with out lies? Can eternal life exist without mortality?

Therefore sin HAD to exist so that we could appreciate a sinless world.

In the beginning God was not God (object of worship) he was Elohim (self existing one), But he had attributes and one of them (among many) was to be a "savior" which had yet to be expressed.


Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


That tells you that God was a savior from the foundation of the world that mean sin had to exist from the foundation of the world also, or else how he could be a savior without something to save people from?

We tend to label Adam and Eve as the original sinners, but sin actually started in heaven with Lucifer.

(July 17, 2015 at 9:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: How do you appreciate a sunny day if there are no cloudy ones? Would the term "sunny day" even exist if it's always sunny? Can truth exist with out lies? Can eternal life exist without mortality?

This muddled reasoning is why believers like yourself can't be taken seriously. Allow me to demonstrate:

How can you appreciate not having a pine cone shoved up your ass unless you experience a pine cone shoved up your ass?

(July 17, 2015 at 9:09 pm)Cato Wrote:

(July 17, 2015 at 9:01 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: How do you appreciate a sunny day if there are no cloudy ones? Would the term "sunny day" even exist if it's always sunny? Can truth exist with out lies? Can eternal life exist without mortality?

This muddled reasoning is why believers like yourself can't be taken seriously. Allow me to demonstrate:

How can you appreciate not having a pine cone shoved up your ass unless you experience a pine cone shoved up your ass?

Look muppet,

It's is very simple, truth cannot exist with out lies, lies help define truth. If it has ALWAYS been sunny, then how can you appreciate it for what it is? where is your frame of reference to recognize it's worth?

You Atheist's seriously can't figure that one out?

thought you were supposed to be critical thinkers,

simpletons.

Wrong! Just plain wrong. Wrong analogy. Wrong concept. Truth, unlike morals, is absolute and does not require opposing viewpoints to discriminate.

(July 17, 2015 at 9:51 pm)IATIA Wrote: Wrong!  Just plain wrong.  Wrong analogy.  Wrong concept.  Truth, unlike morals, is absolute and does not require opposing viewpoints to discriminate.

Still can't figure it out? Say lies don't exist and have never existed... define what truth is.