(July 20, 2015 at 12:18 am)robvalue Wrote: Heya driver, nice to meet you

I really feel for you. I can't imagine how hard it must be to have to pander to people's delusions for your own wellbeing. I totally understand why you have to, and I agree you have no choice until you can hopefully get to a sane country.

Sadly enforcement by violence is going to be the last bastion of religion I feel.

As others have said please be careful, but you can let it all fly here. You're among friends. Supporting people like yourself is one of the main reasons I joined up.

Enjoy the forum                 

May violence is the first bastion of religion. May be religion only resorts to other alternatives when the option of violence has been consumed.

---

(July 20, 2015 at 5:21 am)robvalue Wrote: I want to know what kind of pussy Allah is that they have to silence anyone who may hurt his delicate omnipotent feelings.

Actually Muhammad knew his story of Allah is funny. his story of travelling to God one night explains how recklessly he coined stories. Fear of getting exposed made him intolerant. Murders of Abu Affak and Asma.Bint Marwan tells us all that how insecure Allah and his religion of peace is.

Welcome aboard driver82!

Being where you are, you need to take care of hiding your online footprint.
Always use that proxy and, for added security, connect to this site via the SSL version:
https://atheistforums.org

Perhaps it wouldn't hurt to use a virtual machine, where you don't need to worry about cache and history (but you need a decent computer)
https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

Apart from that, enjoy the forum.
Keep out of trouble, but try to find anyone around you who thinks like yourself - remember that they will be hiding as well and may even deny it if openly asked.

Hello and welcome!

Do you have any ideas driver for how progress can be made towards atheism being somewhat accepted in countries such as yours?

(July 20, 2015 at 5:17 am)driver82 Wrote:

(July 20, 2015 at 12:17 am)Salacious B. Crumb Wrote: Welcome driver82. That has to be rough being in a country that is about 97%-98% muslim. Sorry for the fear of opening your mouth in your country, wanting to discuss your lack of beliefs. I hope you enjoy your time here.

Muslims dont allow anyone to say a word which they think is either apostasy or blasphemy. they even cant understand the notion of free speech in West and keep blaming west for blasphemy.

I, for one, am guilty as charged on that. 

(July 20, 2015 at 8:13 am)pocaracas Wrote: Welcome aboard driver82!

Being where you are, you need to take care of hiding your online footprint.
Always use that proxy and, for added security, connect to this site via the SSL version:
https://atheistforums.org

Perhaps it wouldn't hurt to use a virtual machine, where you don't need to worry about cache and history (but you need a decent computer)
https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads

Apart from that, enjoy the forum.
Keep out of trouble, but try to find anyone around you who thinks like yourself - remember that they will be hiding as well and may even deny it if openly asked.

Surely I will follow your recommendations regarding browsing on this site and finding like minded people around.

(July 19, 2015 at 9:58 pm)driver82 Wrote: I am an atheist from Pakistan. You cannot tell anyone there that you are an atheist. You cannot even criticize Islam. So I keep my mouth shut on religion. It makes me feel abnormal. But i do so to be safe in my country. So i am glad i joined this forum where i can share my views on religion and interact with like minded people. At last I am feeling normal.

Tell us about your yourself. How long have you been an Atheist? What made you disbelieve in the Koran?

(July 20, 2015 at 10:22 am)robvalue Wrote: Do you have any ideas driver for how progress can be made towards atheism being somewhat accepted in countries such as yours?

Before sharing any ideas for making progress towards atheism being somewhat accepted, i want to refer to the asia bibi case. She was a christian who was charged on the grounds of blasphemy. This is important because both 
 and apostasy face capital punishment here. In most cases mob brutally kills the accused. No judge can acquit the person because of fear for his life. Moreover, if you say anything to question Islam's potency its blasphemy. Therefore let me share the incidents revolving asma bibi case.
She was facing blasphemy charges. A governor of a province tacitly supported her. He was murdered by a cop on his security detail. That cop is now facing murder charges but is a national hero. Nobody was coming forward to lead the deceased governor's funeral. Later his son was also kidnapped. Similarly a minister was also killed for voicing his concern. This is what happens to the governors and ministers. Even though the concerned woman just gave a passing remark on Islam while defending accusations on her religion. So what will happen to an ordinary person who publicly raises any indirect question regarding Islam.
Now you know how grave the situation is. Therefore, chances of progress are very little. There is only one relatively safe way and thats online discussions. Though we know what happened to Badawi in Saudi Arabia and atheist bloggers in Bangladesh, yet people can do so by laying low and interacting in closed groups. It will only enlighten like minded people but not give them freedom or security. But still it is a tiny step at least. When atheist will become a sizeable community, may be they can be a little more secure but in Islamic societies it doesn't seem easily workable. Whole society is violent on these issues. They create havoc on related issues even happening elsewhere. May be one day Muslims are taught a lesson by west through the means that they understand how to live in this globalized age. Some nations learnt those lessons after second world war. This is an issue of change of course of history. For time being sharing of ideas among like minded people in a discreet manner is the course to adopt.

---

(July 20, 2015 at 5:37 pm)KUSA Wrote:

(July 19, 2015 at 9:58 pm)driver82 Wrote: I am an atheist from Pakistan. You cannot tell anyone there that you are an atheist. You cannot even criticize Islam. So I keep my mouth shut on religion. It makes me feel abnormal. But i do so to be safe in my country. So i am glad i joined this forum where i can share my views on religion and interact with like minded people. At last I am feeling normal.

Tell us about your yourself. How long have you been an Atheist? What made you disbelieve in the Koran?

I was never a practising or enthusiast Muslim. I grew up watching Hollywood movies. However, Danish cartoon controversy made me curious to dig Muhammad's life. I researched on questions raised by various caricatures. Their messages were so true to the core. Though I had doubt about prophets and miracles type of stuff, yet knowing true picture of his character made me believe he was the worst person I could know. Ironically people in Pakistan usually don't support child marriages, dacoity, inequality or massacres but when Muhammad does the same, they appreciate it. I got sick of this ideology which has made them hypocrites and zombies. I realized that this is the worst type of cult humanity had ever seen. Once I knew true face of Muhammad, rest was just a natural corollary.

Driver, you speak well and seem educated.
Isn't this the ultimate answer. Education. 
This is a common denominator in every country where religion is rife.

(July 20, 2015 at 6:08 pm)ignoramus Wrote: commer, you speak well and seem educated.
Isn't this the ultimate answer. Education. 
This is a common denominator in every country where religion is rife.

Yeah you are right but Muslims keep all their bases covered. You will be amazed to know that half of the population seeks  religious Education only that also from religious semineries who teach religion only. Rest of the education has made Islamic education mandatory up to university level as a a mandatory course. All mosques also keep propagating religious extremism. Every person in a family competes each other to teach kids about religion. They do t care about anything else. In every walk of life people propagate religion as small talk. Hate is systematically inculcated as a doctrine. Every publication contradicting Islam is rigorously prosecuted under blasphemy laws which are punishable by death. IT ministry leaves no stone unturned to filter websites or online contents challenging Islam.
All the forums for formal education or any other mode of education is under a dark blanket.