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RE: What Human Rights?
July 19, 2015 at 5:09 pm
(July 19, 2015 at 3:33 pm)Rhythm Wrote: -and again, regardless of which term you or I prefer to use, moral opinions or beliefs can have truth values - according to both of us. Calling them by either term doesn't change that. Moral relativism, as comprised of opinion or belief, is not void of truth value in any specific instance by use of either term, nor do either terms or a mistake or what is regarded -as- a mistake by any person using either term (or opposed to it's use) imply or demonstrate that the objective goods don't (or do) exist. Call them fleeflarps if you like. I'm -sure- that you could fill fleeflarp with whatever connotations you desire........but it's all so pointless. Well, there's a word salad if I ever saw one.
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 19, 2015 at 5:13 pm
(July 19, 2015 at 5:07 pm)Nestor Wrote: You're saying that the claim "murder is immoral" is a statement that is both true and false. In other words, the word truth as you're using it is meaningless
Subjective reality.
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Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 19, 2015 at 5:44 pm
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2015 at 5:54 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(July 19, 2015 at 5:09 pm)Nestor Wrote: (July 19, 2015 at 3:33 pm)Rhythm Wrote: -and again, regardless of which term you or I prefer to use, moral opinions or beliefs can have truth values - according to both of us. Calling them by either term doesn't change that. Moral relativism, as comprised of opinion or belief, is not void of truth value in any specific instance by use of either term, nor do either terms or a mistake or what is regarded -as- a mistake by any person using either term (or opposed to it's use) imply or demonstrate that the objective goods don't (or do) exist. Call them fleeflarps if you like. I'm -sure- that you could fill fleeflarp with whatever connotations you desire........but it's all so pointless. Well, there's a word salad if I ever saw one.
-but it didn't have to be, lets not forget that this is all to accommodate you, even though it hasn't changed our conversation one bit. : shrugs :
You and I have both agreed to every -point- between us.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 19, 2015 at 6:27 pm
(July 19, 2015 at 5:44 pm)Rhythm Wrote: (July 19, 2015 at 5:09 pm)Nestor Wrote: Well, there's a word salad if I ever saw one.
-but it didn't have to be, lets not forget that this is all to accommodate you, even though it hasn't changed our conversation one bit. : shrugs :
You and I have both agreed to every -point- between us. Uh huh. Ok.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 19, 2015 at 6:29 pm
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2015 at 6:29 pm by Mudhammam.)
(July 19, 2015 at 5:13 pm)IATIA Wrote: (July 19, 2015 at 5:07 pm)Nestor Wrote: You're saying that the claim "murder is immoral" is a statement that is both true and false. In other words, the word truth as you're using it is meaningless
Subjective reality. That is, apparently, neither true nor false.
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 20, 2015 at 12:58 pm
Its kinda hard to talk about human rights with people who refuse to recognize that an unborn child is a human being. As I said earlier nominalism and conceptualism prevent their adherents from even having a concept of humanity on which to hang human rights.
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 20, 2015 at 12:59 pm
(This post was last modified: July 20, 2015 at 1:02 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
"fapfapfapfapfapfap, gaaaaawd".....
Pretty sure we can address human rights regardless of whether or not a fetus has them.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 20, 2015 at 1:05 pm
Then by all means tell us what necessary and sufficient conditions must be present for a human being to exist.
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 20, 2015 at 1:08 pm
Nestor, I'm really liking what you're saying here, and agree 100%
I have a question for you. You don't seem to believe in moral relativism. So where do you think the objective truth that "kicking babies is immoral," came from?
(This is not a loaded question, btw. Genuinely curious.)
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: What Human Rights?
July 20, 2015 at 1:09 pm
I have to argue for the conditions of human existence in order to discuss human rights? No, sorry, wrong again.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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