atheism and children

[Catholic_Lady]

They were Nutella stuffed brownies I got the recipe for on Pinterest. Freaking amazing. I'll be sure to send you some via PM next time.

Ugh!  You are killing me!  Since I still have work to do tonight I may have to run out and get some junk food. Everyone's asleep anyway.

Food is my life. Thank goodness genetics are in my favor, otherwise I'd be huge lol.

[Kingpin]

Ugh!  You are killing me!  Since I still have work to do tonight I may have to run out and get some junk food. Everyone's asleep anyway.

Food is my life. Thank goodness genetics are in my favor, otherwise I'd be huge lol.

Same here. I still have the metabolism of a 13 yr old. My wife hates it. I eat an entire pizza by myself and still lose 5 lbs. she sniffs a cracker and gains 5 lbs.

[robvalue]

It's been a very interesting discussion!

I'd like to clear up my views on things. I think having children is morally questionable, that's probably the best way to put it. There are a lot of issues involved which are not cut and dry. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's totally wrong/immoral. And of course, I'd never ever try and stop anyone doing it. The points that I think are questionable are:

1) Forcing a life into existence when there was no requirement to do so, gambling on its standard of life without its consent.

2) The new life cannot easily "opt out" once here. Suicide is an option, but it's far from simple, and once here the person has their own moral decisions to consider.

3) The planet is hugely overpopulated already, and way more kids than are necessary for "survival" of the species are being produced.

4) There are hundreds of thousands (millions?) of children desperate for a home already.

5) Even the "happiest" of lives is pretty much guaranteed a fair dose of suffering at some point. I'm not comfortable with judging on behalf of this potential new life that "on balance it is good enough".

6) This world is a horrific place and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. (Of course this is just my own opinion.)

I don't look down on people for having children or think less of them. I would have preferred they not do it, or adopt instead, but I can't expect people to do what I would do. They live their own lives and make their own decisions. There's no point me holding a grudge against them after having kids. At that point, what is important is being a good parent. From what I read on here, I sense many very good parents I'm happy for people that they are happy and that (hopefully) their children are happy.

I'd prefer I had never been born, but I don't hold a grudge against my parents. Not on that account, anyway.

It's nice to be able to discuss it without people getting angry, I know it's a touchy issue. I don't expect people to simply agree with me, I'm just putting forward my point of view and supporting it with arguments. My goal, as ever, is to promote free thought and discussion.

Thank you to those of you who have shown you understand my position, even if you don't agree with it! It's one of many topics I wouldn't even bother talking about with most people because of the defensive aggression and attempts to shut down the conversation that I normally get.

[BrokenQuill92]

Food is my life. Thank goodness genetics are in my favor, otherwise I'd be huge lol.

Same here. I still have the metabolism of a 13 yr old. My wife hates it. I eat an entire pizza by myself and still lose 5 lbs. she sniffs a cracker and gains 5 lbs.

My boyfriend is the same way! I think it's a guy thing!

[Alex K]

Same here. I still have the metabolism of a 13 yr old. My wife hates it. I eat an entire pizza by myself and still lose 5 lbs. she sniffs a cracker and gains 5 lbs.

My boyfriend is the same way! I think it's a guy thing!

Say hello to Alex, the living counter example...

[Alex K]

As someone who spawned recently, I do tentatively agree with some of your points. I think that at the end of the day, having kids is a somewhat selfish act because it serves some emotional (and sometimes even economical) need of the parents. However, I don't really think, at the risk of sounding like an imperialist pig, that the solution to global overpopulation is stopping to procreate in northern europe, it really isn't. I'm not saying that anyone should stop procreating, it just needs to reach sustainable levels everywhere.

Where we differ much, though we have a lot in common, is our outlook on life and the conclusions we draw from it. I also think the world sucks in large parts, but it is also endlessly exciting and interesting, and beautiful in places, and I can't wait showing that to the wee ones and seeing the world in a fresh light through their eyes. When I look at my baby daughter, sometimes I contemplate that life will be miserable for her too at times, there will be loss, or sickness. But then, you have to try and hope. If you decide against creating new life, you are also making a decision for your potential spawn without asking. Now, I admit this argument is relatively weak since it is so random who actually gets made in a conception, and which foetuses get aborted by God (incredibly many) and which don't. I do not think therefore that anyone who decides against kids should feel any need to justify this decision.

It's been a very interesting discussion!

I'd like to clear up my views on things. I think having children is morally questionable, that's probably the best way to put it. There are a lot of issues involved which are not cut and dry. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's totally wrong/immoral. And of course, I'd never ever try and stop anyone doing it. The points that I think are questionable are:

1) Forcing a life into existence when there was no requirement to do so, gambling on its standard of life without its consent.

2) The new life cannot easily "opt out" once here. Suicide is an option, but it's far from simple, and once here the person has their own moral decisions to consider.

3) The planet is hugely overpopulated already, and way more kids than are necessary for "survival" of the species are being produced.

4) There are hundreds of thousands (millions?) of children desperate for a home already.

5) Even the "happiest" of lives is pretty much guaranteed a fair dose of suffering at some point. I'm not comfortable with judging on behalf of this potential new life that "on balance it is good enough".

6) This world is a horrific place and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. (Of course this is just my own opinion.)

I don't look down on people for having children or think less of them. I would have preferred they not do it, or adopt instead, but I can't expect people to do what I would do. They live their own lives and make their own decisions. There's no point me holding a grudge against them after having kids. At that point, what is important is being a good parent. From what I read on here, I sense many very good parents I'm happy for people that they are happy and that (hopefully) their children are happy.

I'd prefer I had never been born, but I don't hold a grudge against my parents. Not on that account, anyway.

It's nice to be able to discuss it without people getting angry, I know it's a touchy issue. I don't expect people to simply agree with me, I'm just putting forward my point of view and supporting it with arguments. My goal, as ever, is to promote free thought and discussion.

Thank you to those of you who have shown you understand my position, even if you don't agree with it! It's one of many topics I wouldn't even bother talking about with most people because of the defensive aggression and attempts to shut down the conversation that I normally get.

[robvalue]

Thank you Alex I appreciate people taking the time to consider my position. All I'm saying is there are issues involved, and you've acknowledged that. It's the people who flat out refuse to admit there is anything to even think about who confuse me. I don't see how all of my talking points can be dismissed as nothing.

I agree, I'm not proposing overpopulation be dealt with simply by some people not having kids, just that it's a factor.

Yes, I've been called selfish for deciding to not have kids. That is utterly ridiculous in my opinion and people who think that should get bent. You could argue I am selfish for not adopting, that is true. I couldn't adopt even if I wanted to, as it happens, due to my circumstances.

I missed out a point:

7- The amount of waste/resource consumption from the new life.

My points are things to consider, not me saying "don't do it for this reason".

PS regarding consent: If something cannot give consent, then it's my position that we should consider what is best for it, not do what we want with it. Therefor it's not automatically good or even neutral to bring a potential life into the world, because it's not necessarily in its best interest. This is, of course, a matter of opinion and debate. I oppose the idea that life is by definition "worth living" as a universal truth. Life is a blessing and a curse. It's an opportunity, but also a prison sentence.

At the end of the day these are just my thoughts and don't matter to anything except for the purposes of discussion.

[Dystopia]

Pyrrho - Speaking about consent for someone who doesn't exist is just irrational - For consent to take place, we need at least two sentiment beings who exist presently, and both need to say "YES" - If we are talking about bringing someone to existence that doesn't exist yet, then consent doesn't apply legally, ethically or morally, it only applies after there is an existing being, which depending on what you believe may be after many weeks of pregnancy. Your idea of consent as if it had any kind of application for non existent beings doesn't make sense, only if someone exists can they consent into something, and minors don't even need to consent.

[Nope]

While I agree with you 100%, I must say I'm disappointed you didn't share the brownies with the rest of us

Now I'm hungry....

They were Nutella stuffed brownies I got the recipe for on Pinterest. Freaking amazing. I'll be sure to send you some via PM next time.

Nutella and all thingd chocolate were invented to thrawt my efforts to lose weight.


Nutella stuffed brownies drool

[massey904]

Atheists do favor abortion so I could understand why they don't like kids

First of all, I'm sure more atheists are in favor of allowing abortions than Christians. That's not the same as celebrating them. And there are pro choice Christians.

But, and I think it's the big thing that you are missing is that those of us who are pro choice generally don't think that fetuses are children. Neither does the Bible. It's one of the few cases where I agree with the Bible. Fetuses aren't children.

I like children. Can't say I really like babies, though I loved mine. But I don't like all adults generally either. I do find injuring or neglecting babies or children reprehensible. I find injuring able adults reprehensible and injuring or neglecting disabled adults reprehensible. Ending fetuses not so much. Why? Because they are not people yet.

Should a fetus have a chance to live? Where in the bible does I support abortion? The bible is 100% pro life.