Was Jesus' sacrifice really a sacrifice at all?

[Captain Scarlet]

I wonder how many round-about ways we can go over this issue before people get fed up and say 'fuck it.' You guys throw the same old anecdotes and incorrect interpretations of the matter out every time, and then shut your ears and screech 'la dee da!' every time someone tries to give you an answer. So here's a new one, though you ight now like it;

Jesus' sacrifice obviously wasn't for you in the first place, anyway. Stop worrying about it so much if you really don't care.

(Watch them spin this in 3...2...1...)

You see that is exactly the wrong way around. I don't think any athiest cares about a sacrifice as they don't beleive there was one. Assuming it happened at all I ,for one, am more than happy not to care one iota about the Roman execution of a bronze age jewish man for sedition. Unfortunately it is a few people in the Christian community who can't be happy until we all believe it too.

Watch the hysteria in 3,2,1...

[Minimalist]

Xtians always see things ass-backwards. Comes with the territory.

[chatpilot]

Godschild wrote:God did not impose the curse of sin on man, He allowed it to come into place just as He said it would, He said do not eat the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden for if you do you shall surely die. They did and in more than a physical death.

Another clear example of Christians cherry picking and denying what their so called holy book so obviously states. I pointed out that God imposed the curse upon humanity and you throw the blame on Adam and Eve. Now remember your bible states that they had no knowledge of good or evil so tell me my good Christian, how were they to know that eating of the tree was a bad thing? Of course God told them not to but they were like children in the sense that they had not been corrupted by "sin". It's like telling your child not too eat too many chocolate bars or he might have a tummy ache, but guess what? As soon as you turn around that is the first thing that a child would do.

Also, they were tricked into it by the serpent whom God never told them nothing about. They could not resist the serpents temptation even if they wanted to, because of their state of innocence. They were tricked into believing what the serpent had told them although it contradicted the command that they had received by God. It's like giving a toddler a fork to play with in a room full of sockets. God had obviously set them up for failure! That son of a bitch

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Min wrote: Xtians always see things ass-backwards. Comes with the territory.

I've been saying this for years Min

[Godscreated]

Godschild wrote:God did not impose the curse of sin on man, He allowed it to come into place just as He said it would, He said do not eat the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden for if you do you shall surely die. They did and in more than a physical death.

Another clear example of Christians cherry picking and denying what their so called holy book so obviously states. I pointed out that God imposed the curse upon humanity and you throw the blame on Adam and Eve. Now remember your bible states that they had no knowledge of good or evil so tell me my good Christian, how were they to know that eating of the tree was a bad thing? Of course God told them not to but they were like children in the sense that they had not been corrupted by "sin". It's like telling your child not too eat too many chocolate bars or he might have a tummy ache, but guess what? As soon as you turn around that is the first thing that a child would do.

Also, they were tricked into it by the serpent whom God never told them nothing about. They could not resist the serpents temptation even if they wanted to, because of their state of innocence. They were tricked into believing what the serpent had told them although it contradicted the command that they had received by God. It's like giving a toddler a fork to play with in a room full of sockets. God had obviously set them up for failure! That son of a bitch

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Min wrote: Xtians always see things ass-backwards. Comes with the territory.

I've been saying this for years Min

Where is your proof that they were child like, you are making this up so you can establish your point as truth. You see they knew the consequinces of disobedence and understood, why else would Eve had told the serpent that if they were to eat of the tree they would die. You have no idea of the intellegence God gave them, by the way why would God want to set Adam and Eve up to fail. He created them to have a relationship with them that was pure not corrupt, to set them up to fail would only ruin their perfect relationship and seperate them. By your reasoning God might as well had never created mankind.

[Minimalist]

God did not impose the curse of sin on man, He allowed it to come into place just as He said it would

An un-indicted co-conspirator. God should be arrested. He exhibits depraved indifference to human life.

Depraved Indifference Law & Legal Definition

To constitute depraved indifference, the defendant's conduct must be 'so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, so lacking in regard for the life or lives of others, and so blameworthy as to warrant the same criminal liability as that which the law imposes upon a person who intentionally causes a crime. Depraved indifference focuses on the risk created by the defendant’s conduct, not the injuries actually resulting.

[chatpilot]

Godschild wrote: Where is your proof that they were child like, you are making this up so you can establish your point as truth. You see they knew the consequinces of disobedence and understood, why else would Eve had told the serpent that if they were to eat of the tree they would die.

Eve was simply repeating what God had said to her, kind of like a child telling another child "my mom said I can't eat chocolate". And the other kid replies "oh, come one she will never know". They were child like in the sense that they had on idea what sin was, in fact your bible states that they were naked and did not even notice it "they were not ashamed". And your great God knew that they had eaten from the tree when they stated that they were ashamed to come out because they were naked.

25 Now, both of them were naked, the man and his wife, but they felt no shame before each other. Genesis 2:25
9 But Yahweh God called to the man. 'Where are you?' he asked.
10 'I heard the sound of you in the garden,' he replied. 'I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid.'
11 'Who told you that you were naked?' he asked. 'Have you been eating from the tree I forbade you to eat?' Genesis 3: 9-11

You can take two naked children and bathe them together and guess what little Tommy will not get a hard on if you bathe him with baby Sue, why not? Because they have what is called innocence. Not to mention the fact that your God was so stupid that he did not even know that they ate from the tree and had to ask them. Keep cherry picking and making excuses for your fictional deity, if that is what it takes to help you justify our delusion then have at it.

Godschild wrote: By your reasoning God might as well had never created mankind.

Lucky for me he does not exist and hence did not create mankind, I would hate to have been created by a dictator such as your imaginary god.

[Captain Scarlet]

God did not impose the curse of sin on man, He allowed it to come into place just as He said it would, He said do not eat the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden for if you do you shall surely die. They did and in more than a physical death.

Godschild this is inane. If the god you worship is ominiscient and omnipotent he is as culpable as Adam and Eve. Why? Well if something undesirable was about to happen and you could neither prevent it nor did you know about it, you are of course blameless. But if you did know it would happen and were able to help prevent it, you may carry some responsibility for allowing it to happen. As you knowledge and power grow so does your culpability. Now imagine you can do everything and know everything, you are as culpable as the perpetrators.

Queue the 'free will' defence...

[ib.me.ub]

imagine if god wasn't so nice after all.....

[chatpilot]

ib.me.ub wrote: imagine if god wasn't so nice after all.....

The biblical god is a dick by my standards, that is if he exists which in my opinion is a huge if.

[Godscreated]

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Godschild wrote: Where is your proof that they were child like, you are making this up so you can establish your point as truth. You see they knew the consequinces of disobedence and understood, why else would Eve had told the serpent that if they were to eat of the tree they would die.

Eve was simply repeating what God had said to her, kind of like a child telling another child "my mom said I can't eat chocolate". And the other kid replies "oh, come one she will never know". They were child like in the sense that they had on idea what sin was, in fact your bible states that they were naked and did not even notice it "they were not ashamed". And your great God knew that they had eaten from the tree when they stated that they were ashamed to come out because they were naked.

25 Now, both of them were naked, the man and his wife, but they felt no shame before each other. Genesis 2:25
9 But Yahweh God called to the man. 'Where are you?' he asked.
10 'I heard the sound of you in the garden,' he replied. 'I was afraid because I was naked, so I hid.'
11 'Who told you that you were naked?' he asked. 'Have you been eating from the tree I forbade you to eat?' Genesis 3: 9-11

You can take two naked children and bathe them together and guess what little Tommy will not get a hard on if you bathe him with baby Sue, why not? Because they have what is called innocence. Not to mention the fact that your God was so stupid that he did not even know that they ate from the tree and had to ask them. Keep cherry picking and making excuses for your fictional deity, if that is what it takes to help you justify our delusion then have at it.

Godschild wrote: By your reasoning God might as well had never created mankind.

Lucky for me he does not exist and hence did not create mankind, I would hate to have been created by a dictator such as your imaginary god.

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