Pat Doesn't Think Much of the EU

[abaris]

Yes, patriotism and nationalism are such glorious things to strive for. They gave us all the beauties of the last century. What could possibly be wrong with that?

[Dystopia]

Pride is the wrong word... it's not wrong to appreciate and respect and treat your country right, of course not. But to be "proud" of it has never made sense to me.

I think you can be proud of things your family did because of the connection there is, like parents are proud of kids when they graduate since parents frequently fund and help kids studying so they become better than previous generations. It makes sense. Pride is a word that rarely fits many things - I could say that there is no free will, and as such we can't be proud of anything because all we achieve is possible only because of where we were born, who helped us and the resources we had. I can be proud of having a law degree, but it doesn't make sense because the only reason I have it is because I managed to pay the tuition (my parents did)

[downbeatplumb]

The sooner Europe is one political entity the better as far as I'm concerned. The petty nationalism I see in my country is galling in the extreme to one who does not agree with the jingoism that seems to pervades facebook these days. The amount of hateful right wing propaganda I see all the time from people I thought were reasonable humans is getting me down.
Some of the comments are geting distinctly "third Reichy" and it seems to be getting worse every day.

The better for Germans, French and English, not for poor and weaker nations - Most countries never agreed to this and didn't know the drawbacks, the people didn't vote explicitly knowing what they were getting into and even if they did I think circumstances have changed. Aside from the less important linguistic differences, the EU will never work as a federation for historical and political reasons - A German citizen is different from a British citizen and so on, each requires different measures and political legislation. There is no valid historical reason to create a federation despite the possible advantages

Since the EU has been founded how many wars have there been between the nation states? And as to the statement that Germans and Brits are different I think this is false, all people are basically the same, it is the artificial distinictions that people place on things that ruins the place. The needs of a German are no different from the needs of a Brit or a French person or a Slovakian. Europe could work as a federation why not we share common goals. we may not all speak the same language but that really is the only thing that separates us

[Dystopia]

Yes, patriotism and nationalism are such glorious things to strive for. They gave us all the beauties of the last century. What could possibly be wrong with that?

Because liberalism gave us awesome things as well. How about a middle ground, like civic nationalism that is based on equality, contribution and mutual tolerance and not on race (and other trivial things) while still glorifying country people live in towards a common goal? Everyone is a bit nationalist to some degree, it's not avoidable, Not all nationalism equals being a racist nazi or a totalitarian

[Edwardo Piet]

Preferring your own country to others is one thing - preferring the people in your country to others... that's really tarring a lot of very fantastic people in other countries with the same brush.

I associate nationalism and patriotism with most of the people I have come across and heard from who claim to be "nationalists" and "patriots"... and these people seem to be very arrogant, obnoxious - and self-righteous - more than not, in my personal experience.

Love your country? Sure. Appreciate your country? Sure. Respect your country? Sure. Be proud of your country? I think that would be giving myself way too much credit... I'm hardly a part of my country, I'm not a fan of my country personally and if I was and thought it was fantastic, I wouldn't wear it like a badge and still wouldn't consider myself "proud". I'd feel more grateful and lucky to have been born here, that's all.

[abaris]

Europe could work as a federation why not we share common goals. we may not all speak the same language but that really is the only thing that separates us

Yet some people fear for their dicks if that was to happen.

[downbeatplumb]

And it is a made up concept. People seem to claim their country is the best in much the same way as they support the football team of the nearest city. It means nothing except that that is where they are from. Take pride in where you live, but accept that it is not because where you live is special.

I think you got one thing wrong - Nationalism rarely means thinking your country is the best in everything, it usually means just prefering your own country and people to others - Like a Portuguese writer said during the fascist regime, people love their country not because it's the best but because it's their own (i.e. Same way people love wives, husbands and families - My girlfriend isn't the prettiest or best person in the world, but I love her because she is my girlfriend)

This is the appropriate response.
But is it how people REALLY feel?

In the UK people like to think the UK is the best and that seems to be mirrored in the US with their Exceptionalism being pushed by Fox etc. What I have found is that people use nationalism as a stick to persecute others.
Down with nationalism I say.

[abaris]

Everyone is a bit nationalist to some degree, it's not avoidable, Not all nationalism equals being a racist nazi or a totalitarian

Speak for yourself. If my ancestors would have been nationalists I wouldn't even be there. And nor would my family.

[Dystopia]

The better for Germans, French and English, not for poor and weaker nations - Most countries never agreed to this and didn't know the drawbacks, the people didn't vote explicitly knowing what they were getting into and even if they did I think circumstances have changed. Aside from the less important linguistic differences, the EU will never work as a federation for historical and political reasons - A German citizen is different from a British citizen and so on, each requires different measures and political legislation. There is no valid historical reason to create a federation despite the possible advantages

Since the EU has been founded how many wars have there been between the nation states? And as to the statement that Germans and Brits are different I think this is false, all people are basically the same, it is the artificial distinictions that people place on things that ruins the place. The needs of a German are no different from the needs of a Brit or a French person or a Slovakian. Europe could work as a federation why not we share common goals. we may not all speak the same language but that really is the only thing that separates us

You are wrong - While we have similarities, the differences between us exist. For example, if Germans prefer to work until 5pm and Spanish prefer to work up to 7pm and sleep the siesta, a uniform legislation  would not work for this place. Creating a country (a federation) only makes sense if the bonds between people are strong enough to justify it. That's just not happening in Europe. If I went to England, Sweden or Germany and felt like we were the same people, I might give the idea a try, but most Europeans when travelling abroad simply feel the cultural difference too much to justify creating a new country. you don't need to have wars to justify not creating a federation, you just need the most basic argument of all - That a country requires a strong degree of proximity that just isn't the case in Europe, despite the common stuff. What would happen if a federation ocurred is that sooner or later people would rebel and it would tear itself apart - In fact, I think the tendency is not federalism but regionalism - Just look at Catalunha in Spain, those guys want the independence and I think they'll get it, and Italy is another case of regionalisms.

[Ben Davis]

Pat's fear-mongering and his rhetoric throughout this piece reinforces the view that he's a border-line islamophobe however he does raise some good points:

- incidence of rape in European countries is higher for muslims who originate from the middle east
- ISIS have stated that they have and will continue to abuse border controls to gain access to Europe for its operatives
- the EU has, amongst its leadership, corrupt politicians who have repeatedly bypasses democratic process to enforce their will
- there have been concerted political efforts to prevent proliferation of the above facts

The problem is that he's using those points to:

- paint all muslim immigrants as rapists rather than looking at the real problem of cultural dislocation and disenfranchisement in immigrants
- paint all muslim immigrants as ISIS operatives rather than the grateful, hard-working bunch that the overall majority are
- advocate dissolution of the EU rather than looking to fix what is, in principle, as solid a concept as the US
- further conspiracy theories of mass media manipulation rather than target specific occasions of media abuse
- paint all liberals as 'enemies of freedom' rather than accept that muslims deserve the same human rights as everyone else (and that he enjoys)

Not a good vid from him, this time.