Pat Doesn't Think Much of the EU

[Minimalist]

The test for entrance into the US is more stringent.

Not true.  There are tests for citizenship for immigrants but just to get here?

My grandparents got off the boat without speaking a word of English.  My grandmother never really learned.  They lived in an Italian enclave in Brooklyn for most of their lives but their sons assimilated in a big way.

My wife never fails to mention that when she goes to get a manicure there is always some brand new Korean/Vietnamese girl at the shop.... always named "Jennifer" who can't speak a word of English.  But they learn. 

I don't know what effort is being made for islamic/african migrants to assimilate to European culture.

[abaris]

This seems to be a basic difference between immigration into the US and immigration into Europe.  Every ethnic group which has arrived in waves in the US has made efforts withing a generation to assimilate into the culture.  Once again, the issue seems to come down to religion.

Says someone, who takes this incompatible issue on say so by the ones feeling threatened or having some nationalistic issues. When I grew up, there wasn't a black person around where I live. Now they're virtually everywhere. Which I consider a sign of a growing and colorful society. I don't give a shit about the culture changing. It always has, it always will.

[Minimalist]

Pat doesn't seem to be complaining about the Africans.  It's the muslims he's wary of.

[abaris]

Pat doesn't seem to be complaining about the Africans.  It's the muslims he's wary of.

And on what grounds? 4 to 5 percent in any given European country. The statistics are in the public domain. I'm scared shitless already.

[Minimalist]

In case you haven't noticed there have been some high profile terror attacks.  That sort of thing does get people's attention.

And it will lead to a backlash.

[Dystopia]

This seems to be a basic difference between immigration into the US and immigration into Europe.  Every ethnic group which has arrived in waves in the US has made efforts withing a generation to assimilate into the culture.  Once again, the issue seems to come down to religion.

Says someone, who takes this incompatible issue on say so by the ones feeling threatened or having some nationalistic issues. When I grew up, there wasn't a black person around where I live. Now they're virtually everywhere. Which I consider a sign of a growing and colorful society. I don't give a shit about the culture changing. It always has, it always will.

As a Portuguese, I remember being little and seeing my black cousin for the first time and acting surprised because I didn't know black people existed, no one has ever taught me. I see more black people today as well, specially in southern Portugal (I live in the north) - In fact, I did get surprised by the amount of black people there are in the south because I'm not used to seeing it - But I don't have a problem with it - The only true issue is that the majority of Africans are placed in segregated neighbors and live in poverty - You can go to Lisbon and see many black people during the day, but at night, specially in middle class tourist areas, you won't see a glimpse of a black person. My cousin works as a police sheriff on a predominantly black neighborhood that is one of the most dangerous places to go in Lisbon - He recently got off work because he had a mental breakdown after seeing so many crimes, killings and violence. I think the problem with Europe is that we take too many immigrants at once and ignore the cultural differences that exist - We should organize better how we integrate people into society.

Keep in mind you can never integrate fully a new group into society, only individualized families and individuals who are willing to integrate themselves - Europeans simply put immigrants in ghettos and then pass laws saying "you can't say profanity against this group" and ignore the core issues. It's not just a matter of giving people access to basic services, it's also about actively integrating them into our cultures, something we don't do - That's why people segregate form each other and every group has their own little culture that they prefer over others. 

I am indifferent towards the ethnic composition of each country, as it is something that eventually changes and varies with time and history, but I don't think anyone should accept another culture and see it as equal just because it's holders are a minority - I think the majority of racism comes from culture. In my country, gypsies are the most hated group, far more than blacks - The reason for this is cultural, not ethnic. My girlfriend is part gypsy and she was never discriminated against, because she doesn't adopt gypsy culture, it's as simple as that. It's only natural that some individuals from minority groups will choose to integrate into the majority's culture and succeed if their own culture isn't helping them much. Some people stay, others go.

[abaris]

In case you haven't noticed there have been some high profile terror attacks.  That sort of thing does get people's attention.

And it will lead to a backlash.

One word, Europol statistics. 4 percent of terrorist attacks in Europe having religious motivations. That's not even singling out muslims - only religion(s).

[Dystopia]

In case you haven't noticed there have been some high profile terror attacks.  That sort of thing does get people's attention.

And it will lead to a backlash.

It's not just terror attacks Min, it's hate speech laws banning people from burning Qurans (who dares doing that anyway? You might get killed) but burning a bible is fine, or Muslims suing employers because they don't allow headscarves at work, or German authorities recommending that German girls shouldn't weark miniskirts because of refugees - All these things eventually lead to a great deal of frustration that revolts people. Let's not forget that the circumstances which lead to the Holocaust and the glorious (*sarcasm) 3rd Reich were not that different from what is happening here ---> Economic crisis, discontent with the establishment, dislike of minorities and outsiders, feelings of nationalism as a backlash towards the EU's federalist attempts...

[abaris]

It's not just terror attacks Min, it's hate speech laws banning people from burning Qurans (who dares doing that anyway? You might get killed) but burning a bible is fine, or Muslims suing employers because they don't allow headscarves at work, or German authorities recommending that German girls shouldn't weark miniskirts because of refugees.

The German authority is one single provincial headmaster writing an advisory letter to the parents. Rightwingers made a big deal of it. Why am I not surprised by you jumping that particular train?

Also, quotaton please, concerning hate speech laws that say it's OK to burn bibles but not Qurans.

Baseless, the bunch of the above.

[Dystopia]

It's not just terror attacks Min, it's hate speech laws banning people from burning Qurans (who dares doing that anyway? You might get killed) but burning a bible is fine, or Muslims suing employers because they don't allow headscarves at work, or German authorities recommending that German girls shouldn't weark miniskirts because of refugees.

The German authority is one single provincial headmaster writing an advisory letter to the parents. Rightwingers made a big deal of it. Why am I not surprised by you jumping that particular train?

Also, quotaton please, concerning hate speech laws that say it's OK to burn bibles but not Qurans.

Baseless, the bunch of the above.

Please, check out the UK's hate speech laws on ethnic/racial hate speech - According to those laws and the interpretation of some judges/juries, burning a Quran can constitute racial hatred (many people don't distinguish between Muslims and Arabs) - Burning a bible would be troublesome and in some countries could be punishable for offending a group of people, but you would never be accused of promoting racial hatred and bigotry. I don't have to educate you or anyone else on things you can easily find on google or additionally read books on.

My examples are merely illustrative, I didn't intend to encompass every possible scenario where something goes wrong. Have you seen, for example, what happened in Rotherham in England? What about women being told to not report rapes because it could cause discrimination against minorities (because the rapists were minorities)? Could you please research a little? What makes you think it is a good idea to make two different cultures live together? Would you put a lion and a tiger in the same cage?

BTW, when it comes to law not everything is explicit on paper, sometimes we reach the conclusion by rational thought and logic - If there's a law prohibiting hate speech against minorities but no law banning bible burnings, it is obvious that burning a Quran would constitute a crime but not a bible.