A question about hell

[dyresand]

Well he hasn't gotten himself banned yet. that's better than some posters I've seen.

One day one post one very angry mod and a heated discussion the button will be pressed 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpR4p41F8G4

[Drich]

The bible does not say we burn forever in a lake of fire. The bible says Hell is forever and Satan is the only one doomed to burn forever. "We"/Man who chooses Hell over eternal life. Are sent to Hell to be consumed by fire/destroyed by Hell fire. Or so said Christ.

How does one choose hell? Is it like choosing a car?

It's like Choosing to not be vaccinated for the Flu, and then getting the flu.

[Drich]

Did I do it wrong? Oh no. Let me try again.

It hasn't helped you in the past
But feel free.

And if He could go on living quite happily without you for eternity?
What if he doesn't need you, what if your not in the drivers seat here. What if the situation is that of rescue of those who only wish to be rescued?

Going back to my Syrian example, not all Syrians want to relocate/be rescued by the west. So then why would the western countries taking Syrian immigrants go into Syria and beg those who remained to come with them? Would western society collaps if those hardcore Syrians did not relocate? What if the western countries that ISIS was just days away Is the western countries obligated to relocate the general Syrian population anyway?
Hell, no!
My attitude is if they want to live and die by what's coming, then I say let them have their cake! I can't imagine God's attitude to those who want a puppet show from God/God bending over backwards for them Given what has already been done, to be much different.

Then I'm fine with that. I don't need him to live happily, and he doesn't need me to live happily, so we can live our lives separately.

..And that's what Hell is. eternal separation from God.

Except according to the bible he seems to really want everyone to dedicate their lives to him, and if we don't he gets pissed off and wants to punish us. He's very self centered.

How so?
If God is the creator of Everything, and you don't want to be apart of His creation what where else can you be sent besides "the Void, The Pit, The absence of creation/Hell?" Because all of the rest of creation will one day sing out to praise Him. If you don't want to do that then you must be removed from creation so as to not be forced to do that.

Not that I've never been self centered, but I've also never killed someone for not doing what I told them to do. Despite the fact that I KNOW what's best for everyone. Because I'm me. If everything in the world went the way I wanted them to, it would be perfect.

Would anyone have to die (ISIS) to make you 'perfect world' possible? If so then how exactly is what you are doing any different than what God has planned?

Rescue from what? Hell? You have a guy that creates a system where you either do what he wants, or he'll make sure you have a bad time.

Which if you were incharge it would seem you'd be doing the same thing.

And you're judged specifically on how much you worship him, instead of your actions.

Ah, no. Thankfully we are judged on neither. Understand 'your actions' Your 'morality' is an ever downward spiral of worsening actions. so to judge us on our 'actions' is foolishness. because society can justify any act and still be 'moral.'

No we are judged on one single thing. Do we have our sins atoned for through Christ? It has nothing to do with worship or our deeds. why because neither could be enough to buy the atonement offered.

Hence people like Jeffrey Dahmer getting into heaven, and people like Gandhi going to hell. Down here we call that blackmail.

Ah, no again. None of us are in a position to Judge either man. Christ said many on the final day will Cry out Lord, Lord! (Meaning they will call to him as followers, and He will say away from me evil doer, I never knew you. So again our labels or our deeds as 'christians' don't mean anything. It is up to Christ and Christ alone to define who is and who is not Christian.

Are the westerners asking the Syrians to move also the ones threatening to kill them if they don't?

The will die, by their own inaction/staying on the path that they currently live on.. Just like all unrepentant sinners.

I'm not purposefully avoiding some kind of evidence from god. I just don't know why an all knowing all present force needs workarounds to initiate a relationship with people. He wants something from me, and he's going to try to get it in the most complicate way possible.

What you see as a 'work around' or as a complication I see as a demand for respect and humility.

Imagine trying to help someone out and it cost you your son to do so. Now it is bad enough to go out of your way to help someone out/Someone who would literally die if you did nothing, and they are not only thankless they feel entitled to your help, and demand more than what you offer, and worse yet you have to meet them on their terms... Now Imagine helping someone out and it cost you your son, and this self righteous SOB not only feels entitled to what you have done, but also demands that you debase yourself further by personally jumping through hoops (perfore magic tricks on demand/grant wishes) as some sort of reassureance that your offer was genuine.

when from the beginning You are willing to offer, but only on your terms. Because you know the nature of people. Meaning you know if people are not made to meet you on your terms they will have you, (despite all that you do,) try and meet them on their terms.

IDK about you but I have tried to help self righteous/Self entitled people before. They are not only beyond help they only want to take advantage of what directly benefits them, and screw the process that is in place that can benfit many many others. I would let everyone rot who is not willing to meet me 1/2 way.. Even so God doesn't even ask for 1/2 way. He simply seeks a heart humble enough to Acknowledge Christ and what has been done.

but again sport.. the 'proof' is not dependant on anything the guy telling the good news has. The proof is in following the directions the guy gives you. That is how all directions are vetted. It's in the following to see if they take you where they claim to go...
In this situation, their is no cost nor is their risk. All one must do in his own personal private life is simply humble themselves before God and A/S/K as outlined in Luke 11.
The only real risk is you find out that God is real and has been patiently waiting.

The directions the guy gives, which is second hand knowledge at best, and can be read in enough different ways that different people can fervently believe it while also disagreeing with other people on what exactly it says. It's faulty. I was already humble as a child. I believed everythign I was told, and read through the bible a number of times. Nothing happened, so I left. When I want a relationship with someone, I seek them out. I don't write notes for other people to send. I don't wait and hope they notice me. I expect the same from everyone else.

What were you expecting?
What do you want from God?

define constructive

I would say keeping a genocidal murder out of reach from those in whom he has a taste for is very constructive for those who other wise would be affected by this being.

Constructive would be doing something that helps a community. Like if another species was created, the convict could build houses for them. Clean up the area. Do something but rot away in a cell while someone tortures them. Or being dropped into a hole full of lava.

So.. is it your belief that everyone/thing is redeemable? Let's say something crazy like Demons are real.. soul eating demons. do you think that at some point their nature will ever change? do you think if simply given enough time that the most hard core isis fighter can and will see the world through your rose colored lenses?
Do you think that most hard core fighter could ever be trusted with your family unsupervised? If not what would you do with him? would a life sentence be too much? what if he lived forever? what if, for him it would be literal hell if he could not kill and mame people? is that sentence unjust if he can't live his life the way he wants?

It is ABSOLUTLY NOT! We are to win people's souls, and work with in the frame of whatever government or existence they currently live. Islam demands they take over all world goverments and or kill all who get in the way/oppose them So that the whole world is ever facet of life worship their god in accordance with their holy book.

If Christian's were on the same 'mission' as muslims do you think gay marriage would even be a topic of conversation? Absolutly not! The have a death sentence for homosexuals no questions asked. But, rather in America where Christianity supposedly rules we have gay marriage the best any of us can do is work with in the frame work of government to over turn that decision. but if we can't then we are to not rebel against our goverments because they do not work by our bibles.

Some people would disagree with that. some people would say if you're not willing to kill or die for god to destroy the godless than you're not a true christian. and they can find verses in the bible to back them up.

Then ask for book Chapter and verse.
With a reminder that Christians are not OT Jews under specific orders concerning a specific people/problem.

They took control over europe at one time.

again without a biblical mandate, their actions were not Christian despite what they claim. How F'ed up is it that Sunni Muslims who have a Specific mandate to Kill/Murder Men women and Children who oppose their god, get a pass by saying "Only radical muslims do this" When again all Sunni Muslims have been given this mandate by their holy book!
Then Christians who are told by their Holy book that this type of behavior is evil, and those who participte in it will not enter Heaven are told the whole religion is evil because 'radicals' who went outside of our Holy book claim to do evil acts (described by said book as being Damnable) In God's name?

You people have things backwards. Christians do not have a command to take over the world by sword, if people will not listen, and we are call evil, when Muslims do have that exact command and those who do follow their Holy Teaching properly are call radicals... They are not Radical if they are following their teaching. they are simply devout. Which is miles away/complete oppsite of a devout Christian.

They're trying to turn America into a theocracy.

They who?

They are christian extremists, and they are willing to bomb buildings and pass laws according to the bible, and so forth.

Again show me book chapter and verse. If you can't then accept youre not speaking of anything Christian. We have been told NOT to Rebel against our governing authorities. We are to work with in it's Social governmental structure. whether we like it or not.

They used to kill homosexuals, and some still call for it.

Again they who? and you need to provide
BCV

They're not as strong as they used to be, but that doesn't mean they didn't do those kinds of things when they were powerful. The Salem with trials is a good example. how many witches do you really think lived in Salem?

Again, Book chapter and verse.
Where do we as Christians have a mandate to burn witches?
If it is not in the bible, then the acts people do in the name of God, are akin to a psyco killing your family in your name. Even if you wanted nothing to do with that person and wanted to see him dead for his actions. It does not mean he was acting in accordance to your want or will, despite what he has said.

Christianity doesn't rule to the extent that they can do the kinds of things they used to do, and we're fighting to keep it that way. Yet we still have theocrats running for office that aren't being kicked out as soon as they say we should implement a flat tax just because the bible says so.

LOL
So.. flat tax=God is taking over

Whoopie Goldberg is that you? or has your insanity already infected the weak minded?
Show me Christian doctrine that demands attacks on people anywhere for any reason.
So if the bible does not authorize attacks in the name of Christ, then is it Christians in any way shape or form whoopee is really afraid of? (Let me put it another way just incase you are not whoopee.. (Meaning you are one of the weak minded) What if a serial killer started killing people in the 'name of President Obama.' Now mind you, that Obama speaks out against this psyco, and has absolutely nothing to do with Him, and even has put things in place to keep people from doing such things.. Yet here we have one or two isolated people who decide they want to attribute their evil to Obama.. Now does anyone really blame Obama? Does anyone have to fear Obama Himself?

Yet weak minded sheeple want to attribute the acts of crazy people to a doctrine that firmly stands against all the evil that has been done in its name.

You don't think there's any christian doctrine anywhere that encourages violence?

Nuupe.

Even if we leave out the old testament,

and you shoul as the OT Speaks to OT Jewish doctrine not Christianity. If we were meant to follow the OT we would be OT Jews and not Christian. My study in the book of Romans is laying out the reasons why.

and only use the last third of the book, you think there's absolutely no basis for things like the crudades, inquisition, and such?

Nuuuupe
not one.
Everything the NT Teaches demands we work with in the frame work of our communities and with people who hate us. If ever we had a reason to rebell against the state it would have been durning the 1st roman persecution. Where Nero saw to the death of ALL of the Apostles.
They were in a position to establish at least a 'right to defend yourself doctrine' again the state, but rather remain faithful to the teaching of Christ up to their horrid deaths by the state. We have NEVER Been given the right to hurt anyone in the name of God EVER. We are told over and over and over and over turn the check, forgive, forgive and you will be forgiven, if and when the world sins against you, it is the same when you sin against god, so forgive and your sins will be forgiven. Over and over and over. Not to mention we are told as many times that we are never in a position to judge other evil/sinners. so to judge someone/act on said judgement by killing them, seals our own fate with God.

This is the EXACT oppsite of how history plays out. People who did these sort of thing did so without the word to do so from God, and will be punished accordingly.

That despite the historical violence that christians have committed against themselves and theirs somehow they got their ideas without any scriptural basis for it? That's rather naive.

What is naïve is not understanding basic church history.
In short, the bible was written in a common language (common meaning less than 5% could read or write it, even so that represented the majority of the literate world then.) but common enough that one did not have to be apart of a special club to have access to God's word.
Then around the 3rd century all the manuscripts were compiled so a bible could be written. With this consolidation came a consolidation of power. Over time (hundreds of years) this power corrupted those tasked with keeping said power and a hierarchy was established.(A man with a funny hat being supposedly God's emmasary/Spoke for God) Under Hat man's authority, The bible was rewritten in a language that at the time was coming into popularity, but as time when on and the church became more corrupt only a select few could read or write in that language/Latin. (less than 1% of the common man You had to be a priest) Then the translation of Vulagate/latin bible into any other language during that time it became a crime punished by burning not only yourself but your whole family at the stake. Because it was taught then that Latin was the holy language that the bible was orginaly written in and would be heretical to try and translate it into anything else. Which is why only the priests could learn it.

so what happen next is pretty easy to figure out. With the bible far out of reach of the common man (No checks or balances) the man in the funny hat had complete control over the 'Christian world.' which at that time meant more power than kings of indivisual nations had. So what does a man like that crave more than anything else? More power, more control!

So why didn't good priest challenge him/them? Because being the voice box of God they gave themselves the power to change the bible, which gave way to mandates like the burning of witches (in an effort to force pagan conversion) the 'crusades' forbidding preists to marry, praying to idols, and many many other things the bible contradicts the men who wears funny hats commanded.. this went on for a long long time. ((which again Paul in romans explains why) Until Martin Luther (Not ML King Jr.) Got a hold of the original Greek, and with the help from some friends translated the bible into common german (his language) came up with a 'thesis' that pointed out all the different contradictions between what the bible actually said, verse the changes made by the men who wore funny hats over the years. Which started the protestant movement. One of the men responsible for translating one of the first bibles from Greek to English said "Either the Original Greek is Completely Wrong, or none of those who have been faithful to the Latin Vulgate are truly Christian." Meaning 'the bible' that had been used to do all those wicked things in the name of God for so many years was so corrupt from Papal editing and out right changes to the Original Christian Doctrine, that it was this man's belief that for a 1000+ years no man could claim to be Christian by their religious works.

Which Ironically is true even today. (and yes their were Christians in that 1000 year period, because Christ decides who is and is not Christian. It is not up to a specific religion to say one way or another.) Which is what I mean by no man can claim to be Christian by our religious works./We are not judged by our worship or deeds as some may think.

Not that I can't relate. When I was a kid they just focused on the nice fluffy parts too. Jesus is your pal, and if you're a good boy you get to go to heaven and have all the cake you want. Yet when christians were at their greatest, there were wars and violence and genocides.

How weak does Jesus have to be to want people to be nice to each other, yet is helpless to stand by as people drag his teaching through the mud in his name?

How could we have been given the right to Choose Christ if those who did not want to follow him not be able to "drag his teaching through the Mud?"

[Drich]

I am curious if Drich ever read the story of Prometheus, and thought Prometheus was the bad guy. The story of Genesis is similar.

how so?

[Catholic_Lady]

I believe "hell" is a dimension outside of space and time... one that we have no understanding of yet. The best way to describe it I think would be to say that it is more of a state of being than a physical place. I've written a thread about this a while back ago.

[dyresand]

I believe "hell" is a dimension outside of space and time... one that we have no understanding of yet. The best way to describe it I think would be to say that it is more of a state of being than a physical place. I've written a thread about this a while back ago.

Well there is a total of 10 well 11 dimensions that we know of  first dimension, second, third (the one we live in), 4th time, etc etc etc.
I mean you could just say that hell is a alternate universe instead.

[Catholic_Lady]

What are the 10/11 dimensions you speak of?

[Chad32]

Did I do it wrong? Oh no. Let me try again.

It hasn't helped you in the past
But feel free.

I was talking about quote splicing. Since you prefer inserting answers directly after a question, I decided to do it too. You seem to think I was refering to something else, though.

And if He could go on living quite happily without you for eternity?
What if he doesn't need you, what if your not in the drivers seat here. What if the situation is that of rescue of those who only wish to be rescued?

Going back to my Syrian example, not all Syrians want to relocate/be rescued by the west. So then why would the western countries taking Syrian immigrants go into Syria and beg those who remained to come with them? Would western society collaps if those hardcore Syrians did not relocate? What if the western countries that ISIS was just days away Is the western countries obligated to relocate the general Syrian population anyway?
Hell, no!
My attitude is if they want to live and die by what's coming, then I say let them have their cake! I can't imagine God's attitude to those who want a puppet show from God/God bending over backwards for them Given what has already been done, to be much different.

Then I'm fine with that. I don't need him to live happily, and he doesn't need me to live happily, so we can live our lives separately.

..And that's what Hell is. eternal separation from God.[/quote]

If it's just him leaving me alone, I'd actually prefer that. Many people seem to think the choice is between fiery torment or enslaving ourselves to someone. Both of which would be horrible, though I suppose if I was in heaven and only able to think and act how yahweh wants me to act, i wouldn't know how horrible my existence was.

Except according to the bible he seems to really want everyone to dedicate their lives to him, and if we don't he gets pissed off and wants to punish us. He's very self centered.

How so?
If God is the creator of Everything, and you don't want to be apart of His creation what where else can you be sent besides "the Void, The Pit, The absence of creation/Hell?" Because all of the rest of creation will one day sing out to praise Him. If you don't want to do that then you must be removed from creation so as to not be forced to do that.[/quote]

I could be sent to a place where I have everything I need to care for myself and my loved ones. Even a simulation of Earth would be better than being some deity's lapdog. The idea that he wants absolute servitude, and the only other option is destruction or torture or whatever is extremely self centered. I shouldn't even have to explain that.

Not that I've never been self centered, but I've also never killed someone for not doing what I told them to do. Despite the fact that I KNOW what's best for everyone. Because I'm me. If everything in the world went the way I wanted them to, it would be perfect.

Would anyone have to die (ISIS) to make you 'perfect world' possible? If so then how exactly is what you are doing any different than what God has planned?[/quote]

If I was all powerful, things would run a lot smoother. People wouldn't be debating my existence. People who prayed to me would get what they need. As it stands you have people worshiping other gods. Even if they are fake, it means people are getting as much or more out of worshiping a fake deity as they are the real thing.

Rescue from what? Hell? You have a guy that creates a system where you either do what he wants, or he'll make sure you have a bad time.

Which if you were incharge it would seem you'd be doing the same thing.[/quote]

Did I say that? I don't think I mentioned throwing anyone into a pit of fire, or anything like that.

And you're judged specifically on how much you worship him, instead of your actions.

Ah, no. Thankfully we are judged on neither. Understand 'your actions' Your 'morality' is an ever downward spiral of worsening actions. so to judge us on our 'actions' is foolishness. because society can justify any act and still be 'moral.'

No we are judged on one single thing. Do we have our sins atoned for through Christ? It has nothing to do with worship or our deeds. why because neither could be enough to buy the atonement offered.[/quote]

Judging people by their actions isn't foolishness. it's the only means of justice. You say we're judged on whether or not our sins are atoned by christ. In order to have that, you need to worship him. Follow the holy book. dedicate your life to Jesus.

Hence people like Jeffrey Dahmer getting into heaven, and people like Gandhi going to hell. Down here we call that blackmail.

Ah, no again. None of us are in a position to Judge either man. Christ said many on the final day will Cry out Lord, Lord! (Meaning they will call to him as followers, and He will say away from me evil doer, I never knew you. So again our labels or our deeds as 'christians' don't mean anything. It is up to Christ and Christ alone to define who is and who is not Christian.[/quote]

Then it would be impossible to say who the real christians are. This is why you have thousands of different denominations. Because christians can't decide on what they need to do to get into heaven, and they still expect us to convert somehow.

Are the westerners asking the Syrians to move also the ones threatening to kill them if they don't?

The will die, by their own inaction/staying on the path that they currently live on.. Just like all unrepentant sinners.[/quote]

That's not what I asked.

I'm not purposefully avoiding some kind of evidence from god. I just don't know why an all knowing all present force needs workarounds to initiate a relationship with people. He wants something from me, and he's going to try to get it in the most complicate way possible.

What you see as a 'work around' or as a complication I see as a demand for respect and humility.

Imagine trying to help someone out and it cost you your son to do so. Now it is bad enough to go out of your way to help someone out/Someone who would literally die if you did nothing, and they are not only thankless they feel entitled to your help, and demand more than what you offer, and worse yet you have to meet them on their terms... Now Imagine helping someone out and it cost you your son, and this self righteous SOB not only feels entitled to what you have done, but also demands that you debase yourself further by personally jumping through hoops (perfore magic tricks on demand/grant wishes) as some sort of reassureance that your offer was genuine.

when from the beginning You are willing to offer, but only on your terms. Because you know the nature of people. Meaning you know if people are not made to meet you on your terms they will have you, (despite all that you do,) try and meet them on their terms.

IDK about you but I have tried to help self righteous/Self entitled people before. They are not only beyond help they only want to take advantage of what directly benefits them, and screw the process that is in place that can benfit many many others. I would let everyone rot who is not willing to meet me 1/2 way.. Even so God doesn't even ask for 1/2 way. He simply seeks a heart humble enough to Acknowledge Christ and what has been done.[/quote]

You have no room to demand respect or humility when you refuse to show yourself properly. The problem is that no one sees the helping. All we have are stories written by people who claimed to be divinely inspired. How can we thank someone who we don't know exists? Why would I thank someone who brutally murdered his son because he thinks that somehow absolves anyone of wrongdoings? Even if I knew it all happened, I would still feel it too immoral to thank him for it. It's gross.

but again sport.. the 'proof' is not dependant on anything the guy telling the good news has. The proof is in following the directions the guy gives you. That is how all directions are vetted. It's in the following to see if they take you where they claim to go...
In this situation, their is no cost nor is their risk. All one must do in his own personal private life is simply humble themselves before God and A/S/K as outlined in Luke 11.
The only real risk is you find out that God is real and has been patiently waiting.

The directions the guy gives, which is second hand knowledge at best, and can be read in enough different ways that different people can fervently believe it while also disagreeing with other people on what exactly it says. It's faulty. I was already humble as a child. I believed everythign I was told, and read through the bible a number of times. Nothing happened, so I left. When I want a relationship with someone, I seek them out. I don't write notes for other people to send. I don't wait and hope they notice me. I expect the same from everyone else.

What were you expecting?
What do you want from God?[/quote]

I expected some kind of definitive proof of Jesus that I could show other people. I guess I wanted to hang out with him and talk to him like a regular person. Nobody came to the door, or called me on the phone, or anything.

define constructive

I would say keeping a genocidal murder out of reach from those in whom he has a taste for is very constructive for those who other wise would be affected by this being.

Constructive would be doing something that helps a community. Like if another species was created, the convict could build houses for them. Clean up the area. Do something but rot away in a cell while someone tortures them. Or being dropped into a hole full of lava.

So.. is it your belief that everyone/thing is redeemable? Let's say something crazy like Demons are real.. soul eating demons. do you think that at some point their nature will ever change? do you think if simply given enough time that the most hard core isis fighter can and will see the world through your rose colored lenses?
Do you think that most hard core fighter could ever be trusted with your family unsupervised? If not what would you do with him? would a life sentence be too much? what if he lived forever? what if, for him it would be literal hell if he could not kill and mame people? is that sentence unjust if he can't live his life the way he wants?

I think pretty much anyone can be redeemed, given enough time. Except maybe sociopaths because there's something wrong with their brains and they can't feel empathy. As far as demons go, the only difference between a demon and an angel is that demons no longer worship Yahweh. So what would make them irredeemable? The most hardcore fighter can still be civil around some people some of the time. they have to be, right?

It is ABSOLUTLY NOT! We are to win people's souls, and work with in the frame of whatever government or existence they currently live. Islam demands they take over all world goverments and or kill all who get in the way/oppose them So that the whole world is ever facet of life worship their god in accordance with their holy book.

If Christian's were on the same 'mission' as muslims do you think gay marriage would even be a topic of conversation? Absolutly not! The have a death sentence for homosexuals no questions asked. But, rather in America where Christianity supposedly rules we have gay marriage the best any of us can do is work with in the frame work of government to over turn that decision. but if we can't then we are to not rebel against our goverments because they do not work by our bibles.

Some people would disagree with that. some people would say if you're not willing to kill or die for god to destroy the godless than you're not a true christian. and they can find verses in the bible to back them up.

Then ask for book Chapter and verse.
With a reminder that Christians are not OT Jews under specific orders concerning a specific people/problem.

Yet you guys still kept it as part of your book. I'm sure partly because the bible would be much shorter without the OT.

They took control over europe at one time.

again without a biblical mandate, their actions were not Christian despite what they claim. How F'ed up is it that Sunni Muslims who have a Specific mandate to Kill/Murder Men women and Children who oppose their god, get a pass by saying "Only radical muslims do this" When again all Sunni Muslims have been given this mandate by their holy book!
Then Christians who are told by their Holy book that this type of behavior is evil, and those who participte in it will not enter Heaven are told the whole religion is evil because 'radicals' who went outside of our Holy book claim to do evil acts (described by said book as being Damnable) In God's name?

You people have things backwards. Christians do not have a command to take over the world by sword, if people will not listen, and we are call evil, when Muslims do have that exact command and those who do follow their Holy Teaching properly are call radicals... They are not Radical if they are following their teaching. they are simply devout. Which is miles away/complete oppsite of a devout Christian.[/quote]

If someone claims to be christian, and can find a part of the bible that justifies what they already believe, then they're as christian as the next cherry picker.

They're trying to turn America into a theocracy.

They who?[/quote]

Ben Carson and Mike Huckabee are examples of presidential candidates who basically want a theocracy. And people vote for these guys.

They are christian extremists, and they are willing to bomb buildings and pass laws according to the bible, and so forth.

Again show me book chapter and verse. If you can't then accept youre not speaking of anything Christian. We have been told NOT to Rebel against our governing authorities. We are to work with in it's Social governmental structure. whether we like it or not.

They used to kill homosexuals, and some still call for it.

Again they who? and you need to provide
BCV[/quote]

Why do I need to provide BCV? These people are out there, and claim to be christian. I don't know what their BCV is, but I'm sure if you managed to ask them they'd tell you.

They're not as strong as they used to be, but that doesn't mean they didn't do those kinds of things when they were powerful. The Salem with trials is a good example. how many witches do you really think lived in Salem?

Again, Book chapter and verse.
Where do we as Christians have a mandate to burn witches?
If it is not in the bible, then the acts people do in the name of God, are akin to a psyco killing your family in your name. Even if you wanted nothing to do with that person and wanted to see him dead for his actions. It does not mean he was acting in accordance to your want or will, despite what he has said.[/quote]

Well we don't see Yahweh punishing these people and preventing them from draggng his name through the dirt. That's the problem when you start out as a genocidal maniac, then later decide you want to be nicer. Jesus is kind of nice sometimes. Yahweh was a psycho in the OT. That may have just been for the Jews, but when someone comes along saying he's the sone of the guy from the OT, then people are going to take the OT seriously. Especially when Jesus says he's not here to change the laws.

Christianity doesn't rule to the extent that they can do the kinds of things they used to do, and we're fighting to keep it that way. Yet we still have theocrats running for office that aren't being kicked out as soon as they say we should implement a flat tax just because the bible says so.

LOL
So.. flat tax=God is taking over[/quote]

It's one example. The fact that someone like Ben Carson has any chance to get into the white House is a very bad sign.

Whoopie Goldberg is that you? or has your insanity already infected the weak minded?
Show me Christian doctrine that demands attacks on people anywhere for any reason.
So if the bible does not authorize attacks in the name of Christ, then is it Christians in any way shape or form whoopee is really afraid of? (Let me put it another way just incase you are not whoopee.. (Meaning you are one of the weak minded) What if a serial killer started killing people in the 'name of President Obama.' Now mind you, that Obama speaks out against this psyco, and has absolutely nothing to do with Him, and even has put things in place to keep people from doing such things.. Yet here we have one or two isolated people who decide they want to attribute their evil to Obama.. Now does anyone really blame Obama? Does anyone have to fear Obama Himself?

Yet weak minded sheeple want to attribute the acts of crazy people to a doctrine that firmly stands against all the evil that has been done in its name.

You don't think there's any christian doctrine anywhere that encourages violence?

Nuupe.[/quote]

Well some do, and they'll likely call you a heretic for disagreeing with them.

Even if we leave out the old testament,

and you shoul as the OT Speaks to OT Jewish doctrine not Christianity. If we were meant to follow the OT we would be OT Jews and not Christian. My study in the book of Romans is laying out the reasons why.[/quote]

But it's still the first impression of Yahweh that we get, and the foudnation upon which christianity rests. So we're not just going to ignore the parts of it that more peaceful christians don't like.[/quote]

Also you don't see any similarities between the story of Prometheus, and the story of Genesis? Some non Human gives Humans a gift and is punished for it because the higher power didn't want them to have it. I doubt anyone would call Prometheus evil. I don't call the snake evil either.

[dyresand]

What are the 10/11 dimensions you speak of?

1st dimension - its a line of infinite points its just a representation of the future.

2nd dimension - it's a plane with left right up and down

3rth dimension - its a plane with left right up and down with a Z axis, we are in the third dimension. 

4th dimension - Its a dimension of time if you were there you could theoretically see the beginning and end of  the universe and anything that  takes place. 

5th dimension - it is a dimension usually or  probably more than 3 spatial dimensions and time. This dimension is small the only way of detecting it's presence is via the LHC.

6th dimension - Every single possibility with our  laws of physics for earth and the universe is visible that being said there could be a Earth were Nazi Germany finished the V2 rockets and  won WWII and successfully taken over the world.  There also could be a possible universe where god directly interacts with human beings. 

7th dimension - Eh think of it as a dimension without notion of distance that  is the best way i can explain that. 

8th dimension - With this dimension you cannot have any sort of matter what so ever in it. 

9th dimension - Different universe with different laws of physics and starting points.

10th dimension - Every single possibility of the universe and the earth exists chances are we probably gender and ideology swapped in one of them. You could be the one typing this out and chances are i would probably sorta have asked the same question. 

11th dimension - Then we have to start talking about string M Theory  or string theory. So this would mean our Third dimensional universe is floating around in the 11th dimension in a multiverse.

[Nay_Sayer]

How does one choose hell? Is it like choosing a car?

It's like Choosing to not be vaccinated for the Flu, and then getting the flu.

The flu is temporary and without a vaccination I'll likely get over it. Your god however in his loving infinite wisdom has set out to make it that my finite crimes be dealt with an infinite punishment.
Luckily your god is imaginary and my god will deliver me to the great eternal buffet.