Loving and forgiving your enemies

[Excited Penguin]

Yes, they would be the only two options since the scenario I described could only include those two options. How is that so hard to understand?

No the scenario could involve other options because it's a false dichotomy. It's only a true dichotomy if within the scenario you describe you say something like "No other options are allowed in this scenario", and how is that helpful?

I did imply there weren't other options. Pay better attention in the future.
"And say you get a chance to kill him first and that's the only way you're making it out alive out of his basement(or whatever)."

Now, apologize.

[Catholic_Lady]

Do you think the woman in this video is dishonest, self centered, and self serving, then?

I don't know how honest she was - I tend not to care enough to try and guess people's real intentions and motivations. She could be crazy, for all I know. But most likely - she just dealt with her grief however she saw fit.

Ok, just making sure because you made a huge blanket statement about Christians who choose to forgive.

[Catholic_Lady]

My rage is on apparently.

EP, my love. Keep calm and let's kiss. 

[Edwardo Piet]

I wasn't talking about feelings of bitterness. I was talking about practical forgiveness. As in whether or not you excuse someone for doing something in the sense that you don't think they'll do it again.

That's not really what is generally meant by forgiveness.

I am pretty sure that when CL speaks of forgiveness she doesn't mean that either. She's already kudosed my post that you can forgive someone completely while not remotely tolerating or condoning their behavior.

Generally to forgive someone is to forgive them in your proverbial heart, to not begrudge them, to not be vengeful against them. It doesn't mean you have to tolerate them.

[Edwardo Piet]

My rage is on apparently.

EP, my love. Keep calm and let's kiss. 

In his own words: he's not interested. Can I kiss you instead?

[Catholic_Lady]

^Yep!

[Catholic_Lady]

I wasn't talking about feelings of bitterness. I was talking about practical forgiveness. As in whether or not you excuse someone for doing something in the sense that you don't think they'll do it again.

That's not really what is generally meant by forgiveness.

I am pretty sure that when CL speaks of forgiveness she doesn't mean that either. She's already kudosed my post that you can forgive someone completely while not remotely tolerating or condoning their behavior.

Generally to forgive someone is to forgive them in your proverbial heart, to not begrudge them, to not be vengeful against them. It doesn't mean you have to tolerate them.

Correct.

[Excited Penguin]

I wasn't talking about feelings of bitterness. I was talking about practical forgiveness. As in whether or not you excuse someone for doing something in the sense that you don't think they'll do it again.

That's not really what is generally meant by forgiveness.

I am pretty sure that when CL speaks of forgiveness she doesn't mean that either. She's already kudosed my post that you can forgive someone completely while not remotely tolerating or condoning their behavior.

Generally to forgive someone is to forgive them in your proverbial heart, to not begrudge them, to not be vengeful against them. It doesn't mean you have to tolerate them.

That is what it means though. To not begrudge them and to not be vengeful against them, is to tolerate them in a sense. I'm making more sense out of a stupid word than you are. That doesn't mean I don't understand what the OP or you mean by forgiveness, it just means I don't point out what a useless word it is to begin with in order to be able to converse about it.

[Edwardo Piet]

I did imply there weren't other options. Pay better attention in the future.
"And say you get a chance to kill him first and that's the only way you're making it out alive out of his basement(or whatever)."

Now, apologize.

For what?
I've not got enraged, I've remained decent and civil. I've not accused you of anything or insulted you, and you've falsely accused me of doing so. No one really needs to apologize here, but certainly not me.

You're the one taking things too personally here, if anyone ought to apologize any time soon, it will probably be you.

I already said that it's not helpful to phrase the hypothetical scenario that way. In reality those would never be the only two options. Thought experiments aren't helpful when they're constructed in that way.

If you ask me "If you had to choose between incredibly stupid option A and incredibly stupid option B, which would you pick?"

I'd say that's an incredibly stupid and loaded question and in any remotely real scenario it would be a false dichotomy.

[Catholic_Lady]

EP, don't ignore me you beautiful man you!