Another reason Buddhism doesn't get a pass.

[The Grand Nudger]

Christians also fail to see their remarks as a threat..they are simply telling you how their beliefs work, which..to them, is how the world works....same contention as your own. You have been able to notice that to a person not -inside- their faith tradition..this comes off like a threat......but you fail to realize that people not inside the buddhist system would see your own remarks as the same. You, sir(lol), have failed to perform the outsider test even as you gave an outsiders perspective yourself. You didn't follow through, you gave your beliefs and actions a pass for the very thing you are criticizing in the beliefs and actions of others. You do this -alot-.

Do what buddhism says is right, or karma will rape you for it. Is this not accurate?

[miaharun]

It is right for me. I don't expect anyone else to believe it.

[The Grand Nudger]

Regardless of whether or not I believe..if I don't do what buddhism says is right, karma will rape me, will it not? Karma doesn't depend upon my belief in order to leverage it's rapey magic against my misdeeds, does it?

So how could your statement, directly above, respond in any way to the comment I made, how is it remotely relevant? Christians also, presented with such an unkind scenario, choose to evade rather than address.

[miaharun]

Sorry Sir, but Anything i say i can't make you understand. I believe in Karma only so that i refrain from doing bad deeds. I honestly don't care if it is there or not. As long as i do the right thing if it was there or not, is that wrong? I'm not trying to evade you Sir, no matter what i say i seem to fail to make you understand.

[Brian37]

No you are not fine with anyone calling it nonsense otherwise why make the attempt to "correct" me.

He was just a man who started a religion, thats it. Other humans have started other religions.

"righteous life" yea ok, if Buddhism is a cure, then why do even Buddhist countries also have prisons? If Buddha were unifying to all Buddhists there would only be one sect. If the 4 Nobel Truths were also unifying that to would dictate there would be only one sect. You'd have me believe that Zen Buddhists, Chinese Buddhists and Tibet Buddhists all agree with how to implement those "4 Noble Truths"? 

 Buddha is no more unifying to Buddhists than Jesus is to Christians or Allah or Mo is to Muslims. All have within them their own competing sects of what constitutes a "righteous life".

"They aren't true Buddhists" "They weren't practicing it right" same excuses I get from every other religion.

No, those myths are why Buddhism took off. Watering it down is what all religions do to stay relevant. Christians pull that shit too. When for example, you point out the bullshit of talking snakes and talking donkeys they cop out to metaphor too. Sorry, but back when Buddha started selling his story the motif of purity birth was LITERALLY believed. 


Yea and? Plenty of other liberals in other religions who say "Do good, believe what you want". Oh and with all religions I really hate the word "practice", it is not practicing it is following. Again, there is not one religion that does not have the motif of "do good and be kind. I'd only say that Asia and the Oriental religions are less dogmatic. But they are still not the gatekeepers of morality.

Good Sir, I didn't want to try to correct you, All i wanted to state was that i don't believe in fantasy like what i explained. If there were instances like that those would be there in currents times as well. It was a long time ago, I believe People have manipulated and changed things according to their benefit, as with other religions.  However thankfully the core teachings has not changed (The precepts, 4 noble truths etc). I will give you an example, The basic 5 precepts are, Killing is wrong, Stealing is wrong, Adultery is wrong, Lying is wrong and consuming drugs and alcohol is wrong. When it says "Killing is wrong" for instance it applies to all living things in the world. Even a virus has the right to live. It doesn't segment living things in the water, land, underground etc etc. There is no manipulation like Halal for example. Fish is Halal and most of the land animals are not. The core teachings of Buddhism has not changed according to what i know and i hope people will not change it to their benefit.

Yes, Buddha was a man, human who started this. It is very difficult to call it a religion because it doesn't force anything on you. It is a way of living. most certainly not a cure. If it doesn't agree with you , you can always leave it and it is never considered a bad act or a misdeed. You tell me Sir, is that following or practicing?

I have been criticizing Christianity on a couple of threads because people have threatened me with religion.  I have been told by people who converted to Christianity recently that if i don't take Jesus Christ into my heart and think he is my only savior i am going to hell. I find that a direct threat. Just because of my lack of belief that I'm going to suffer is absurd.

Finally I am not trying to teach you Buddhism nor telling you that it makes sense. I just gave some insights to you because you have not practiced it but taken what other people have written or experienced. I hope you have a good day

@ Rhythm, Sir, I have told why i believe in Karma and rebirth. I am fine with it being fantasy. It is so that ill always try to do the right thing. I like to have a feeling in the back of my mind that whatever bad/good act i do will come back to me. However when i do good i do it without expectation. regardless of my beliefs.

There you go again, if you are not trying to teach us anything then why do you respond trying to correct us, and if you are not trying to claim it makes sense, again, why correct us? And please at least with my, skip the "sir" stuff, this isn't a formal setting like a ballet or 5 star restaurant. 

The basic 5 precepts are, Killing is wrong, Stealing is wrong, Adultery is wrong, Lying is wrong and consuming drugs and alcohol is wrong.

So? Again other religions have similar motifs in regards to those things.

1. Killing is wrong? No, not always, if someone was attacking my mom unprovoked and I knew damned well her life was in threat, and I could kill them before they kill her, I certainly would end their life.

Killing is wrong" for instance it applies to all living things in the world. Even a virus has the right to live.

If you want to get yourself stupidly killed and refuse to see a doctor because you got sick from a virus, be my guest, I am not that stupid, and especially with my mom, NO AND FUCK YOU! That logic is bat shit insane, even Buddhist countries have doctors and hospitals who study and fight viruses.

2. Stealing is wrong? When? What Bernie Maddoff did in his ponzy scheme was wrong absolutely. But if someone with no violent intent, who is homeless with a starving kid steals a loaf of bread to feed them, how would that be wrong?

3. Adultery is wrong? No, the sex is not wrong, the lying is wrong. And that is the same judgmental Orwellian garbage the god of Abraham has about sex so if you don't think Buddhists should stone adulterers to death as the god of Abraham demands, I'd say you are being half assed about your condemnation of it. 

4. Consuming drugs and alcohol is wrong? No again, breaking the law is wrong. Getting so intoxicated on anything to the point you destroy property or physically harm others is wrong, yes. You can abuse legal drugs too. Are all Buddhist countries dry countries? No? So again, seems if you value that list you really are being selective. 

5. Lying is wrong? You do know I debunk that with Christians too? If you were allowing an abused spouse to stay at your house and the abuser knocked on your door demanding to know where their spouse was, you'd let them in and tell them where they were? Or would you lie and say they are not there?

Now there are perfectly secular reasons that do not require one to be Buddhist or Muslim or Christian, that you refrain from doing the things above. But that list just as arbitrary "do as I say" as any other moral list of any other religion. It has nothing to do with educated reasons that allow for case by case situations.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sorry Sir, but Anything i say i can't make you understand. I believe in Karma only so that i refrain from doing bad deeds.

Stop with this "I can"t make you understand" nonsense...I do understand.  I'm pretty sure that this is not why you believe in karma, and that belief in karma is not why you refrain from doing bad deeds.  You've said as much yourself.  You would not, if you stopped being a buddhist, start pushing old ladies out in the street.  Or would you like to change your mind about that? In any case, this is a common christian claim..that even if they were wrong, there would still be utility in their beliefs.

I honestly don't care if it is there or not. As long as i do the right thing if it was there or not, is that wrong? I'm not trying to evade you Sir, no matter what i say i seem to fail to make you understand.

Not at all what I asked you.  You mentioned that a christian threatened you with punishment for failing to adhere to his religious beliefs.  You have threatened me with rape magic, if I do not adhere to yours.  Again, stop with this "making me understand" bullshit. If I've misunderstood, tell me specifically where, tell me that karma will not rape me for my misdeeds, as related by buddhism. I've given you the opportunity more than once now. You can't. You can't tell me that I've misunderstood that portion of your beliefs, because you yourself have related it -as- a portion of your beliefs. You refuse to abandon karmas ability to rape me in my next life (or this one) for some thing that buddhism has declared "bad". That -is- something that you believe in. It has fuck all to do with keeping you from doing bad things - and you know that too.

I have not misunderstood, you are simply reeling away from the ugliness of it all....just as you did when a christian made the same threat, to you.

Hey, fun fact, guess what's going to happen to you if you don't follow my moral structure? Not a damned thing. You aren't going to be punished by my non-existent god, nor will you be raped by my fantasy magic. The affrontery of either claim, made by yourself and your christian compatriots, is plain and impossible to ignore. Most of you never seem to see it, though, in relation to your own faiths...even when, like yourself, you are plainly capable of seeing it in another's faith.

How many cigarettes do I have to smoke, do you imagine, as per your rule number 4.....before karma rapes me for it?

[Brian37]

Sorry Sir, but Anything i say i can't make you understand. I believe in Karma only so that i refrain from doing bad deeds. I honestly don't care if it is there or not. As long as i do the right thing if it was there or not, is that wrong? I'm not trying to evade you Sir, no matter what i say i seem to fail to make you understand.

Now listen carefully, there is no such thing as Karma, you use that superstition as a crutch. Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people. You suffer the same bad logic as any other religion when it comes to superstitious "justice", selection bias and sample rate error.

Do a simple google search on the amount of total human deaths worldwide from everything. On average depending on year 50 million to 60 million humans die from everything, in every nation, friend and foe alike. They die in the womb, they die in childbirth, they die from childhood disease, famine. And humans die from natural disaster, disease, crime and war.

The best reasons to not harm others is not rooted in any religion, the best reason not to harm anyone is because our species evolved with empathy. You don't need old myths and words rooted in superstition. If you hurt someone they react, that is evolution, not Karma.

I'd highly suggest you read or watch Carol Sagan's "Pale Blue Dot" speech to understand the nature of reality.

[miaharun]

I haven't threatened anyone with rape magic. I only mentioned how it works. and why i believe it. "Empathy" That is indeed a good point. I hope all Atheists use it wisely

[The Grand Nudger]

Exactly what the christians say..they're not threatening you, they're just telling you how it works.

You, like they, have enjoyed undeserved respect and deference of faith for so long that I honestly believe that none of you see it as a threat.  That realization has completely left your minds. But ah, the moment one of your compatriots does it.......about something you don't believe in......like hell, you get offended.

[Pat Mustard]

It is right for me. I don't expect anyone else to believe it.

You do realise that once you're dead you're dead. There is no part of you which survives death, your consciousness dissipates once your synaptic neurons cease firing? And if you stop when you die, then there is no reincarnation, hence no way for karma to rape you.