Another raaaaaaaaaape!!!

[Edwardo Piet]

Ha, pretty sure I'm right, Mermaid ninja'd me.

[Mermaid]

Doesn't that mean you owe me a coke? (I don't drink soda though, so I'll take a beer).

[Edwardo Piet]

It's ridiculous to see unfairness on one side and think that justifies unfairness on another side.

Lol nobody said this.

Lol I never said they did

And if you want to keep being pedantic like that, here's pedantic: Somebody did say it. I said it. And you quoted it.

Focus on the issue at hand not the exact words I use. If you want to talk words let's talk about how "blame" is absolutely the wrong word to be directed at a victim.

[Edwardo Piet]

Doesn't that mean you owe me a coke? (I don't drink soda though, so I'll take a beer).

If you were here I'd totally buy you a beer once my money comes in.

But have a forum beer right now:

* Edwardo Piet hands Mermaid a beer

[Tiberius]

There's a big difference between victim blaming and risk avoidance.

No victim is to blame if a crime happens to them.

However avoiding risk is a valid thing to do. We do it all the time. However, it's not an easy thing to do sometimes, and it depends on the situation. Getting into a shower with someone who is drunk is not necessarily a bad decision. Drunk people come in lots of different types, so assuming that all drunk people will try to take advantage of you in a shower is not really accurate.

[Edwardo Piet]

I'm sorry, but she was stupid as shit.

Irrelevant to your point of her being partially to blame. She's still a rape victim and a rape victim isn't to blame for getting raped.

But hey, I'm sure you'll come back and say "you're defending the rapist" or some other bollocks that nobody said.

Nope.

You're not defending rape, I get that. But blaming the victim at all and saying that the victim is partially to blame certainly isn't defending the victim as much as it should be.

Just pointing out the obvious.

The obvious would be "She was foolish for being risky like that, but she is still 0% to blame as the victim and the rapist is to blame as the rapist".

Saying the victim is to blame at all, isn't obvious, it's wrong.

Victim blaming doesn't help the victim.

[KevinM1]

I don't know.

How late was it?
Do you live on a dark street?
Are there ample places for an assailant to hide?
Is it in a neighborhood that has a relatively high crime rate?

Kevin, this is what I am referring to. I asked if I was partially to blame here, and your reply implies that maybe I was. That's a different thing than the victim being 0% to blame. I am seriously not trying to be antagonistic. Just trying to have a dialog on an admittedly raw and emotional topic, but one that I find unbelievably important.

Yeah, you're right.  I wrote that in haste while being a bit perturbed with Evie when I felt he was trying to put words in my mouth, and as a result was very sloppy.  I'm sorry.

No, you're not partially to blame for the rape.  Did you increase the risk of something - anything - bad happening?  Maybe, depending on the variables I asked about.  But the responsibility/blame/fault/whatever word fits best for the rape lies with the person committing the rape.  Always.  Period.  Full stop.

Maybe an analogy will make how I see it clear:

Imagine that "shoot the clown's mouth with water" game at the local fair.  Risk represents the size of its mouth.  The greater the risk, the wider its mouth.

An assault is someone walking up to the booth, grabbing the gun, and successfully shooting the water into the mouth.

The odds of a successful shot/assault happening are greater when the mouth is wide.  But!  The shooter/assailant is still the one to blame because they're the one intentionally trying to exploit the situation.

[Jenny A]

I do blame her. What she did was not just a little, but incredibly stupid. I just won't let him off the hook either. He's still a rapist and should be punished. Her stupidity was self punishing.

What I don't like about her campaign is not the message that rape is rape even if the victim is stupid. That's a good message. But she suggests that it's okay to be stupid. It isn't. It's dangerous and it will always be dangerous.

I'll give you an example with different sexes. A man wants to be tied up and taken sexually. He lets a drunken woman who admits she likes to seriously injured men tie him up. She seriously injures him. She's guiltily of assault and should be punished. He's guilty of stupidity and has been punished. No one should be assulted, but no one should do anything as dangerous as he did.

[Edwardo Piet]

There's a big difference between victim blaming and risk avoidance.

Absolutely. And whilst risk avoidance is extremely important it bothers me when discussing something like this someone tries to make the point not simply that risk avoidance is extremely important but they also try to make this point by saying that the victim is "partially to blame", as you say, the victim is never to blame... "blame" is absolutely the wrong word to be used directed at the victim, it doesn't help the victim to talk about risk avoidance in that way. Victim blaming is harmful.

You're absolutely right.

* Edwardo Piet tries to not get too impassioned by this.

Ack, we have too many of these threads.

[Edwardo Piet]

I do  blame her. What she did was not just a little, but incredibly stupid.  I just won't let him off the hook either. He's still a rapist and should be punished.  Her stupidity was self punishing.

She's to blame for her stupidity, yes. But she's not to blame for getting raped, of course.

I think "blame" directed towards the victim is not a helpful word in cases like this. Just because the victim-blaming thing is so harmful.

I do agree that this kind of stupid behavior needs to be discouraged, and she was really stupid and foolish for doing it, and she is to blame for her stupid behavior, but it really needs to be made clear that blaming her for her stupid behavior is very different to partially blaming her for getting raped.