Is Quran the proof of God?

[mr_j936]

You're a looney. Please take it else where. We don't want, and refuse to believe, what you are selling.

Hey my duty as a Muslim is not to make u accept Islam as ur belief. Allah guides whom He wills and He leaves to stray whom He wills. My duty is to at least tell u about what our beautiful religion really consists of. This way when ur judged b4 ur Creator on the Day of Judgment, u certainly can't say "My Lord I didn't know about Islam". That's why He sent Prophet Muhammad(PBUH)as a messenger to all mankind and we follow his leadership. So u know about Islam, u just don't accept it. So as Allah says in the Qur'an: "So he who wills to believe, let him believe, and he who wills to reject faith, let him reject. That's what the gift of free will is all about. But I have no hard feelings towards u, and wish u the best. Good luck to u my friend

Even if he appeared before me now I wouldn't worship him. Because I do not submit to blackmail and or bribes. I am not impressed with this God and his low level of intelligence, any smart individual would care less about whether or not people like him, let alone be petty enough to torture them because of it. 

And spend an eternity in another place full of Muslims? No thanks, one lifetime is way more than enough. I'll take the burning room with the good company thank you.

[Cyberman]

I said "told what to think". You changed that to "told what to do". Then you equivocated the two to make it seem like you hadn't altered my meaning. That is dishonest.

Just referring to the small distance.

It's not me you need to convince. I'm just happy that you can find a way to justify it to yourself. Whatever lets you sleep at night.

[drfuzzy]

Sheed1980 Wrote:
   " The Holy Qur'an, through Muhammad(pbuh)who was an illiterate man.. Everyone who knew him knew he was unlearned and could not read nor write. By doing this God showed that this scripture couldn't be produced by a human being, therefore could only come from God Himself. "

Really? That nasty pedophile snake-oil salesman was illiterate?  So, how did someone of his time write a book?  - - (wait for it) - like most of the people of his time and place, they would hire a scribe.  He probably found some young boy that was studying, so he'd be a cheap fuck at the same time.  That's why it took so long to write the books.  The young scribes kept growing up.  After all, if an angel had written the work, then if would have been too holy for a human to read or touch.  Something would have made it obviously different.  And he wouldn't need Muhammed at all.

"The word for sea appears 32 times and the word for land appears 13 times. 32+13=45. 32/45=71.11% the exact percentage of water that covers the Earth and 13/45=28.89% the exact percentage of land that covers the Earth." "Ch. 16 is The Honeybee, scientists today have discovered that the bee has 16 chromosomes."

This is exactly the point. If god, who knows everything, would have used the book to explain why we have continents and glaciers and freshwater and salt water, and to explain DNA, the solar system, etc., well then the Qur'an might actually be proof of god's existence.  If it was full of knowledge that Muhammed could not possibly have known, there for everyone to read, without having to count words and play silly numerology games, that would be interesting.  These "hidden messages" and numerology "miracles" though, they are just crap from con men who take your money and laugh all the way to the bank.  Sometimes, they come from people who are so desperate to prove that their holy book is special that they spend years of time coming up with nonsense.  

If God wants to prove something to us now, he can just pop down here and hold a press meeting for the news.  He doesn't have to hide messages where only a special few can find them.

So God gives us all as His creatures a chance to accept Him as the only Lord of the universe. So are u going to do it now in this life, worship Him alone and be rewarded with whatever u desire in the Hereafter for obeying and pleasing our creator, or will u ignore His guidance and forgiveness, disbelieve in Him, and then accept Him as ur Lord when it's too late to repent and u r doomed to eternal punishment, like none that you have ever seen? I guarantee u will accept Him as ur Lord willingly in this life or willingly in the Hereafter. But my advice is to accept His guidance and mercy while u still have time my friend

I can't accept an imaginary being as "my lord".  And no deities exist.  So no.  Keep playing with your imaginary friend, but don't you dare assume that my belief or lack thereof is any of your business.

[The Grand Nudger]

I can't accept an actual being as my "lord".  There are plenty of little tinpot kings and dictators out there who -don't- need to be argued into existence, and I don't worship or follow them either.

Therein lies the most idiotic misconception that evangelists toil under....that proving their god exists would make their god my king. As a witty man was fond of saying....all of their work is still ahead of them.

[drfuzzy]

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 They aren't miracles.  As many people have pointed out, the same results have been found in the Bible, the Talmud, the Bhagavad-Gita, the book of the Tao, the works of Confucious, etc.   It's a silly numbers game, attaching various numbers to letters, switching them around until you find something of interest, hunting for interesting matches, grasping at straws. Nothing that comes out of a book is going to provide any proof of the divine.  You can pick up a newspaper and get the same results.  You've been conned by a bunch of folks playing a kid's number-code game.
    Not only are we aware that numerology is total crap, but previous posts have pointed out the errors in your list.  You must have missed those too.
    Another poster noted that if the "coincidences" had just simply been there in the text for everyone to read - - scientific proofs, historical events, the lengths of solar system days and rotations, etc., THEN you might have something to discuss.  A book that actually predicted the future, in plain language, without need for any hidden messages requiring super-special-secret-spy decoder rings that you got out of a popcorn box - now that might actually be proof.

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 That's just the point. This book(The Qur'an)does prove these things. Math and science are the same all over the universe. I don't care how u look at it 1+1=2. So no matter what country you're from or what race or religion u are or what language u speak or what corner of the Earth u live on, it's always going to be the same. Now as I said b4 we'll leave the mathematical miracles out because as u say it's a so called "Numbers game". As for linguistics. The chapters of the Qur'an have a rhyming sense to them, in the Arabic language, in a scripture revealed during a time when society was   huge on poetry. The Qur'an was sent to mankind in the 7th century but for the rest of mankind's existence on Earth. If u think about how much poetry plays a part in our lives today. Poetry is a huge part of our lifestyles to this day. Things as common as the music we listen to contain poetry which is the same lifestyle that existed over 1400 years b4 the Qur'an's first being revealed. This showing that all of the rest of mankind, however many years we last, the Qur'an will apply to our lifestyles. Now as for the scientific and astronomical aspect. These miracles were placed in a scripture by God Himself in the 7th century when telescopes, microscopes, x-rays, space shuttles, computers and all kinds of other technology that are with us today did not yet exist. So who else could have known these SCIENTIFIC AND ASTRONOMICAL FACTS about our planet and our universe besides God Himself, especially in the 7th century, a time period where humans thought the Earth was flat, and the mountains held up the skies? Another question is how many of these scientific, what I call miracles, do you have to witness b4 u stop saying they are just coincidences? How many coincidences can there be? After all things come together, all the so called "coincidences" prove to be a divine plan, where if u don't believe in iit, there are tons of ways that exist today, to verify the information. I'd also like to know what single human being that lived in the 7th century knew of any other planet in our solar system. It's name, and one of the satellites(moons)that orbits it, knowing it's name too, then mentions them both in a 7th century scripture in the same chapter, named "sand dunes", which our technology today has enabled us to see that this specific planet(Mars)is covered with sand dunes, and was was not theorized and named until the 16th century. Also what human in the 7th century knew of a planet that takes 243 Earth days to revolve around the sun while it rotates on its own axis at a 177 degree angle and names the planet(Venus)in a scripture with Arabic letters in 3 verses, 2 exactly 243 verses apart, and the third in 17:7 which is the exact angle on which the planet rotates? Also what human could've known that the universe was expanding in the 7th century, and has been since, and still is today? So what being besides God Almighty, The Creator of the heavens and the Earth, could have known these scientific facts which again have been verified by our technology today? This is why God challenges any and every human being who thinks they can prevail, to come up with just 1 single chapter like that of the Qur'an. Not only does it rhyme, and give a significant message, but each and every single letter corresponds to every other letter in that chapter as well and also can give scientific and astronomical information. IT CANNOT BE ACCOMPLISHED. The challenge still stands and has never been and never will be defeated.  

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God has said this Himself. He will not allow it to happen, by doing He shows that no human, no matter how intelligent, could ever produce an entire scripture, let alone a single chapter, like that of the Qur'an. This showing it could only be produced by God Almighty Himself.

YAWN.  More bullshit.      Words, words, words, and not a shred of real proof.  All they have is their imaginary friend and a ridiculous BOOK that they worship.  It's really pathetic.  An "all-powerful deity" who needs human beings to argue for his existence, because he's so impotent, ignorant, and incompetent to do a decent job of it himself.

[mr_j936]

How can you even be sure Muhammad came up with the quraan and it wasn't a joint effort by a bunch of schemers helping him?

It's my theory about how jesus performed his magic tricks, maybe he cured the blind man because the blind man was never blind to begin with!

[The Grand Nudger]

I can offer a simpler explanation.  There was no blind man for jesus to heal...which is convenient for the non-existent blind man...since there was no jesus to heal him. Jesus wasn't a trickster or a conman...he didn't run a travelling magic show.

He's a narrative device. He "healed the blind" to show that he (the way) could bring sight to the blind, light to the darkness, in the same way that he "fed the multitudes" to show that grace was for all..and could not be exhausted.

[mr_j936]

I can offer a simpler explanation.  There was no blind man for jesus to heal...which is convenient for the non-existent blind man...since there was no jesus to heal him.

I don't know, a gang of 13 con men in Palestine... Not that far fetched.

[The Grand Nudger]

In this case, it's incredibly far fetched.  The character of jesus (and that of his disciples) is a vehicle for theology.  Nothing more or less. Tortuous explanations that purport to show some "truth of the man" are irrelevant, even to the theology.

It is not jesus the man around which these faiths have cloistered. It's the "life" of jesus -as an expression or model of divine order, ability, and intent - which is of primary importance. The narrators offer a string of manufactured scenarios which provide an opportunity to comment upon the theology they wish to advance. This is why jesus is seen hopping from town to town to town performing theologically meaningful miracles.....

We never hear of the parable of "Jesus and Judas discuss how delicious last nights flatbread was while taking a shit in a hole behind their hovel". Which you might expect...from a biography, however flawed or inaccurate.

[WinterHold]

drfuzzy

He doesn't, actually his creations speak about his ability; God filled the universe with signs, now ain't he ?
Sending prophets & books containing more information about him, is just a merciful gift coming from a wise, fair source.