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RE: We've Known About Climate Change for 53 years now.
February 13, 2011 at 8:48 am
(February 13, 2011 at 6:54 am)ziggystardust Wrote: (February 13, 2011 at 4:02 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: Still goes nowhere to explain previous glaciation and 'global warming trends' prior to humanity and our love for burning fossil fuel.
Two words Milankovitch cycles
So any wonder there is apathy and confusion..... I agree with Zen (and others) we should be MORE interested in 'surviving' the change rather than making $$ out of it and spending Bazillions on talking about it.
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RE: We've Known About Climate Change for 53 years now.
February 13, 2011 at 8:49 am
I would recommend this link(amongst others) http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk...720024.ece
This suggests that the main cause of climate change is the Sun, and there's not a lot we can do about that.
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RE: We've Known About Climate Change for 53 years now.
February 13, 2011 at 9:18 am
(This post was last modified: February 13, 2011 at 9:24 am by HeyItsZeus.)
(February 12, 2011 at 12:51 pm)Tiberius Wrote: I'm not against renewable energy; never said I was. What I object to is governments forcing us to be "green" when there isn't a shred of evidence suggesting that we are responsible for climate change. If governments or communities want to go green, it's fine by me, as long as it isn't forced on people as it is today.
So we all understand that renewable energy is the way to go?
And also... does your skepticism on human caused climate change have anything to do with you being a conservative?
Quote:"An individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individualistic concerns to the broader concerns of all humanity. "
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RE: We've Known About Climate Change for 53 years now.
February 13, 2011 at 11:04 am
(February 13, 2011 at 9:18 am)HeyItsZeus Wrote: So we all understand that renewable energy is the way to go? I'm not so sure we "all" understand it. I understand it; I can't speak for anything else.
Quote:And also... does your skepticism on human caused climate change have anything to do with you being a conservative?
No...for two reasons:
1) I'm not a conservative, I'm a Libertarian. Big difference.
2) I believe that political leanings should have no bearing on the truth. The truth is what it is; politics only comes into it when deciding what nations should do about the truth.
I've been at university for 3 years, and during those 3 years I've met numerous people on both sides of the debate. The skeptics are the ones who have the evidence, and thus are the ones I trust more (especially after the climategate scandals last year). If you think you have evidence that humans are causing global warming, present it, rather than complaining about conspiracy theories or making red herrings out of my position.
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RE: We've Known About Climate Change for 53 years now.
February 13, 2011 at 11:58 am
(This post was last modified: February 13, 2011 at 12:03 pm by HeyItsZeus.)
(February 13, 2011 at 11:04 am)Tiberius Wrote: (February 13, 2011 at 9:18 am)HeyItsZeus Wrote: So we all understand that renewable energy is the way to go? I'm not so sure we "all" understand it. I understand it; I can't speak for anything else.
Quote:And also... does your skepticism on human caused climate change have anything to do with you being a conservative?
No...for two reasons:
1) I'm not a conservative, I'm a Libertarian. Big difference.
2) I believe that political leanings should have no bearing on the truth. The truth is what it is; politics only comes into it when deciding what nations should do about the truth.
I've been at university for 3 years, and during those 3 years I've met numerous people on both sides of the debate. The skeptics are the ones who have the evidence, and thus are the ones I trust more (especially after the climategate scandals last year). If you think you have evidence that humans are causing global warming, present it, rather than complaining about conspiracy theories or making red herrings out of my position.
Fair enough:
http://www.climatepath.org/aboutus/science
Fossil fuel and agriculture have drastically increased greenhouse gasses (GHG).
"Global atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide have increased markedly as a result of human activities since 1750 and now far exceed pre-industrial values determined from ice cores spanning many thousands of years. The global increases in carbon dioxide concentration are due primarily to fossil fuel use and land use change, while those of methane and nitrous oxide are primarily due to agriculture. The IPCC has a very high confidence (representing at least a 9 out of 10 chance of being correct) in this conclusion." An IPCC chart showing the increase in these gasses is available here .
Here's another article: http://www.physorg.com/news122655339.html
There are more articles that are published by scientists, climatologists, etc... that may prove a point. And I know very little about libertarianism: please educate me, oh scholarly university student.
Quote:"An individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individualistic concerns to the broader concerns of all humanity. "
Martin Luther King, Jr.
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RE: We've Known About Climate Change for 53 years now.
February 13, 2011 at 6:29 pm
(This post was last modified: February 13, 2011 at 6:29 pm by Justtristo.)
(February 13, 2011 at 8:48 am)KichigaiNeko Wrote: So any wonder there is apathy and confusion..... I agree with Zen (and others) we should be MORE interested in 'surviving' the change rather than making $$ out of it and spending Bazillions on talking about it.
Well the warming is occurring at a stage in the Milankovitch cycle when temperatures are supposed to remain stable or start decrease (thereby starting another glacial period).
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RE: We've Known About Climate Change for 53 years now.
February 14, 2011 at 10:04 pm
"How is it that a lame man does not annoy us while a lame mind does? Because a lame man recognizes that we are walking straight, while a lame mind says that it is we who are limping." - Pascal
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RE: We've Known About Climate Change for 53 years now.
February 15, 2011 at 5:44 am
(This post was last modified: February 15, 2011 at 5:53 am by downbeatplumb.)
Here is a recent episode of hoizon on this subject.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V89AeCLCtJQ
and here is another about how how climate skeptics are skewing the evidence.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00..._Sceptics/
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RE: We've Known About Climate Change for 53 years now.
February 15, 2011 at 3:08 pm
(February 13, 2011 at 11:58 am)HeyItsZeus Wrote: Fair enough:
http://www.climatepath.org/aboutus/science
...
An IPCC chart showing the increase in these gasses is available here . Well sorry but I can discount the IPCC from the get-go because it does not carry out its own original research.
The stated first and foremost aim of the IPCC is to gather scientific information that is only fucking relevant to human-induced climate change. What they are doing is not scientific. They are not observing or monitoring real world phenomena; they started off with a political goal in mind "Prove man-made climate change" and ignore any lack of convincing evidence, or evidence to the contrary.
Quote:Here's another article: http://www.physorg.com/news122655339.html
Discounted because they ignore the fact the sun does actually have an impact upon our climate, they admit there's no model to explain how solar surface activity has affected this planet going back further than the last century, and stellar evolution already explains that the sun is gradually getting warmer anyway:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_giant
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RE: We've Known About Climate Change for 53 years now.
February 15, 2011 at 3:45 pm
(February 15, 2011 at 3:08 pm)Welsh cake Wrote: The stated first and foremost aim of the IPCC is to gather scientific information that is only fucking relevant to human-induced climate change. What they are doing is not scientific. They are not observing or monitoring real world phenomena; they started off with a political goal in mind "Prove man-made climate change" and ignore any lack of convincing evidence, or evidence to the contrary.
Hmmm. But then doesn't that mean that even if the climate change is 99.999999999% not down to us, there is still some evidence that it as at least in the minutest extent down to us? Or am I missing something?
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