Antitheism

[The Grand Nudger]

If you think a belief is stupid, do you think the person is stupid?

I am not against the person holding the ice cream cone because I don't judge people based on one attribute.

-Even smart people believe in stupid things.  I think you're going to need a sharper knife if you want to whittle a finer point.

-Perhaps a person can be against a specific belief set and, like you, not judge people based upon that one attribute?  Haven't you just offered at least one of the many possible answers for your previous question in this comment?

[MTL]

Let me be clear. No definition presupposes a hatred of people. To think that it does is simply incorrect.

I have to say I agree.

I fully understand why people hear "anti-theist" and take it as,
"I'm anti-any-PERSON-who-believes-in-god",
but since a theist is by definition someone who supports Theism,
it is supposed to be understood that it is their chosen belief to which I, as the Anti-Theist, object.

A black person does not choose to be black,
so to say someone is "anti-black people" is pretty clearly hateful;

but a theist chose their theist philosophy,
and it is implicit that the "Anti-Theist" is taking issue specifically with that CHOSEN aspect of that person's thinking;

it is implicit that it is their VIEWS that I am against,
not the individual themselves.

[MTL]

Forget the simple labels. I'll explain in more detail where I stand.

I think religions do a lot of harm. I am anti that harm but I do nothing about it nor do I think I can.

I don't think theism in itself does harm, but I used to believe it did: I consider all forms of theism to be false and I used to consider all false beliefs harmful, I no longer do believe that.

I have never been against religious people or theists themselves. I have never been a bigot.

Anti-religion does not equate to anti-religious-folks and anti belief in God(s) does not equate to anti believers in God(s).

Anti belief in God and anti-religion overlap in one simple term. Antitheism.

Then what is the term for someone like myself who is NOT against belief in God,
but is vitriolically opposed to Religion?

Maybe the definitions need tweaking.

[Excited Penguin]

By the definitions I've read here, I wouldn't qualify as a true "Anti-Theist", either...

(or perhaps I should say "Anti-Theismist" so as to make the distinction
that it is NOT the actual THEISTS I hate, but their THEISM)

...because I'm not opposed to someone cherishing the belief that God exists, by itself;
it is the RELIGION, the DOGMA, that I take issue with.

(Emphasis mine.)
You mean the definitions certain people offered? I wouldn't qualify as an antitheist by their definitions either. While we're at it, I wouldn't consider myself an atheist, if I went by some people's definitions of the word.

For instance, the Oxford English Dictionary currently defines "faith" as follows (in part):

1  Strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof

2  A particular religion: [i]the Christian faith[/i]

....and I completely disagree with that definition; I find it dangerously inaccurate.

They also define religion thusly:

1The belief in and worship of a superhumancontrolling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Therefore, their definitions of faith seem just fine to me, I can't see why you take issue with them.

To me, it is possible to have Faith in God, without Religion, at all;

I'll ignore the "To me" part and address this as a claim.
It is not, in fact, possible to have faith in God without religion, since the two mean exactly the same(with religion holding some further linguistic meaning, of course).

and the two terms should certainly never be used interchangeably,

although they constantly are.

They certainly should(see above).

So, an Anti-Theist being, by necessity of the offered definition
not merely one who opposes Religion,
but also one who essentially opposes the idea that the existence of God is at all feasible,
or objects to anyone else believing in god,
...then I am not an Anti-Theist.

1)Which offered definition might that be?

2)I've seen no definition so far that describes an antitheist as a strong atheist.
3) Nor as a bigot.
4)Here you are contradicting yourself. You cannot both be an antitheist and not be one. You either are or you aren't. Make up your mind about it.

But if someone simply believes in God, without any dogmatic gobbledegoop attached to that belief,

then I don't give a shit.

Belief in God of that sort would be devoid of any meaning - inconceivable.

---

Everything else, I pretty much agree with, more or less.

[The Grand Nudger]

Anti-religious.  Or, if you prefer, an anti-religionist, lol. MTL

Antireligion is distinct from atheism (the absence of a belief in deities) and antitheism (an opposition to belief in deities), although antireligionists may be atheists or antitheists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antireligion

Doesn't fit the bill for me. I think religion is a hell of a tool. I don;t blame the hammer for striking the nail, as it were....and I personally think that a better religion would yield better results. Sagans "religion of nature" comes to mind.

[Excited Penguin]

Anti belief in God and anti-religion overlap in one simple term. Antitheism.

Then what is the term for someone like myself who is NOT against belief in God,
but is vitriolically opposed to Religion?

Maybe the definitions need tweaking.

Rather, your own understanding of them needs tweaking. Belief in God is religious belief.

[Excited Penguin]

Anti-religious.  Or, if you prefer, an anti-religionist, lol.  MTL

Antireligion is distinct from atheism (the absence of a belief in deities) and antitheism (an opposition to belief in deities), although antireligionists may be atheists or antitheists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antireligion

If she would rather identify as anti-religious, but not as antitheist, that would mean she's opposed to religion only to the extent that it doesn't involve belief in deities.

[Excited Penguin]

Doesn't fit the bill for me.  I think religion is a hell of a tool.  I don;t blame the hammer for striking the nail, as it were....and I personally think that a better religion would yield better results.  Sagans "religion of nature" comes to mind.

That's incredibly defeatist.

[Edwardo Piet]

Anti-theist is the same as antitheist. It's just a different way of writing it, that's all. It's not as used as the conjoined form, however.

I meant "being antitheist" as in being anti theists, not "being an antitheist." Just because you're anti theism and therefore an antitheist doesn't mean you're against all theists as people. Being an "Antitheist" is not the same as being "anti" theists.

I should have quoted what I was referring to. I choose to ignore them as I can't see what possible reason I have to talk about them.

Ok well I'll give my short answer to your original question about the difference between anti-theism and anti-religion then:

They're clearly different because there are religions without belief in God(s)/theism and it's possible to have belief in God(s)/theism without being religious.

And it's possible to be anti-religion but not anti-theism, and anti-theism but not anti-religion.



I'm anti-religion but not anti-theism. Merely believing in God isn't a problem. Deism is a form of theism that is harmless for example.

Religion itself taken literally is harmful but luckily nowadays in 2016 the vast majority of religious people cherry pick their religions and are actually totally harmless. Most religious people are nowhere near as harmful as their religions could allow them to be if it weren't for cherry picking.

I am anti-religion in principle but not in practice because in practice most religious people don't follow their religions literally nowadays.

And even if all religious people were as dangerous as the core literal statements in the holy texts, even if we were--even worse than--back in the dark ages, it's still their religious beliefs and behavior I am against, it doesn't mean I have to hate anyone as a person and their intentions can still be good. I still wouldn't ne anti-religious people, just anti-their-harmful-beliefs.

[The Grand Nudger]

Doesn't fit the bill for me.  I think religion is a hell of a tool.  I don;t blame the hammer for striking the nail, as it were....and I personally think that a better religion would yield better results.  Sagans "religion of nature" comes to mind.

That's incredibly defeatist.

I'd call it pragmatic.  Tomayto tomahto.  If those shitwits blowing themselves up for allah were compelled to knit sweaters instead we'd have that many more sweaters in the world. I don't see defeat in suggesting that they drop allah and take up knitting just as religiously.