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"I disagree with you, but i don't think you're Hitler"
#1
"I disagree with you, but i don't think you're Hitler"
(WARNING: Rant)

I have seen an alarming trend around the Internet: atheists insulting theists for the purpose of insulting. I mean i have nothing against attacking and challenging their beliefs, but some of the things i see around there are not the educated argument of someone who wants to change their mindset. It is petty, it is useless, and it is simply humiliating as an atheist to see others who share my (lack of) beliefs partake in that behavior. Likewise, saying that being religious means being an enslaved sheep who doesn't question anything he's told is idiotic and does not further the discussion in any way.

I hate the stereotype that atheists are bitter, angry people who like to act superior and condescending to anyone who does not share their views...but the problem is i see a LOT of people corresponding to that precise stereotype.
Acting as though being an atheist makes them superior as human beings.

Of course, this in no way concerns a majority, or even a big minority: it is only a few people, some of the time. An example that made me want to write this is right on these boards:

(February 19, 2011 at 11:57 pm)Itslikebeingshiton Wrote: I guess i would need to know if you would need toilet paper in heaven. Am I going to have to take a shit every day in Heaven like I do on Earth? Does god have to take shits? Does he wipe his ass with Demon wings? If so then why does God have to take a shit?

I mean a statement like that brings absolutely nothing to the conversation. And is not that funny.


Faith, like it or not, does present advantages. It can lighten grief after a tragic loss, give you courage in times of need and gives you comfort in the face of death. Faith drives some people to do amazing things and this cannot be denied. Also, the majority of theists do not spend a lot of time on their religion. Maybe once a week for church, for the few that actually do go to church.

So in light of that, blanket statements about the religious being weak-minded idiots, or zealous fanatics, are simply not true, and as such making those statements makes the one making them look...like a rude douchebag.
Although i am an atheist, i can see that theists are not another brand of people that are inferior or stupid. There is no black or white, only shades of grey.


As to the title for that topic: Religion is ridiculous. From their beliefs to their traditions to their dogmas. But the theists themselves are not the ones to attack, their religion is. Ad Hominem attacks do not further the discussion and only reinforces stereotypes about atheists.

I disagree with you, but i don't think you're Hitler.

(End Rant)
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#2
RE: "I disagree with you, but i don't think you're Hitler"
Whether or not you agree or disagree with their expression of their views is irrelevant. You don't like what another atheist has to say? Though shit. It doesn't help against the stereotypes of atheists? So what? I don't believe for a second that if we all "play nice" theists suddenly realize we are not the rabid babykillers.


Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Pastafarian
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#3
RE: "I disagree with you, but i don't think you're Hitler"
question: if a priest spending his life helping the poor and the sick, and a representative for the Westborough Baptist Church both wanted to speak to you about religion, which one would you be most likely to listen to ?

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#4
RE: "I disagree with you, but i don't think you're Hitler"
Probably neither, since I've heard it all. If rational discourse is what you are after, than that is your perogative, but you do not get to dictate how others deal wih their atheism.
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Pastafarian
Reply
#5
RE: "I disagree with you, but i don't think you're Hitler"
(February 22, 2011 at 11:39 am)leo-rcc Wrote: Probably neither, since I've heard it all. If rational discourse is what you are after, than that is your perogative, but you do not get to dictate how others deal wih their atheism.

My point is if both parties think the other is an blinded dangerous idiot, no dialogue is possible. And a discussion without dialogue and exchange of ideas is entirely useless. Why would you argue with a theist if neither of you is going to listen to what the other has to say anyways ?

And nowhere did i "dictate" anything to anyone. I am allowed to /facepalm when i see an atheist saying believing in God means being an enemy of Science without having to impose my views on them, just like i am allowed to /facepalm when i see a theist saying atheists are immoral.
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#6
RE: "I disagree with you, but i don't think you're Hitler"
Which is probably why I don't argue/debate theists. I don't see either one of use changing our minds. The main issue for me at least is that I don't believe in any atheist cause or that we need to bridge any gaps of understanding. If anyone wants to do so, I will not stand in their way, but don't expect me to work towards that goal.

(February 22, 2011 at 11:45 am)Rwandrall Wrote: And nowhere did i "dictate" anything to anyone. I am allowed to /facepalm when i see an atheist saying believing in God means being an enemy of Science without having to impose my views on them, just like i am allowed to /facepalm when i see a theist saying atheists are immoral.

Absolutely, you are fully entitled as such. But you did put a quote forward as not being constructive and deemed it not funny as if that is some criteria it needed to adhere to.

Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Pastafarian
Reply
#7
RE: "I disagree with you, but i don't think you're Hitler"
I do have a personal criteria of what is funny or not, a notion which is highly subjective of course. However when i do take a look at that quote i can say that to my standard, this is not a productive thought in the slightest, which is why i objected to it. Poop jokes ? Really ?

/facepalm
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#8
RE: "I disagree with you, but i don't think you're Hitler"
One need not be "Adolf Hitler" to be a fascist....and there are plenty of fascists running around loose.
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#9
RE: "I disagree with you, but i don't think you're Hitler"
(February 22, 2011 at 12:10 pm)Minimalist Wrote: One need not be "Adolf Hitler" to be a fascist....and there are plenty of fascists running around loose.

Yup, but just like being a fascist does not mean being Hitler, being a theist does not mean being a dangerous zealot.

And even that's an exageration...What is Hitler-y but not dangerous in its "diluted" form ? Being Catholic ?
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#10
RE: "I disagree with you, but i don't think you're Hitler"
You are basically arguing for the "Don't be a dick" position that was put forward by Phil Plait at a TAM as well, and though I understand where you are coming from I think that position is inherently flawed. I think there are times that being a dick works. There are also times that diplomacy works better. If you are in it to convince theists of your position both can be a valuable asset in your arsenal of persuasion tools.

Speaking from personal experience, I've changed my mind on several occassions after heated discussions where at some point I've been called a idiot. And though at the time that really wasn't what I wanted to hear, it was what I needed to hear.

Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Pastafarian
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