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February 4, 2016 at 3:16 pm (This post was last modified: February 4, 2016 at 3:20 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 4, 2016 at 10:54 am)Irrational Wrote:
(February 4, 2016 at 10:48 am)Rhythm Wrote: You don't see the problem with polite and gentile bigotry of the "Smile to your face..stab you in the soul......" variety?
Bold mine. Is this a Freudian slip?
Negatron, lol. It's precisely the situation being described whereby people smile to your face and tell you they love you while simultaneously declaring some portion of the very essence of your being damned and dirty. The hand that's reaching around your back to pat it and tell you it's all okay is the same one holding the subtle knife.
It's fundamentally disturbing.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(February 4, 2016 at 2:53 pm)athrock Wrote: I could have guessed as much. But that changes nothing.
Long ago, men who were just as bright and just as intelligent as you were informed by God that certain behaviors are wrong. Although they were loathe to forego the sexual pleasures which they had known (and even observed among the other species of mammals living upon the earth), they were convinced of the holiness of God and the righteousness of His commands.
And so, they wrote down God's laws, obeyed them, and taught others to do the same. Not out of fear, not out of judgment, but out of a desire to respond fully and obediently to an awesome, eternal God who offers love far greater than any known in this life.
Yep, they weren't god's rules. They were men's rules. While they were busy coming up with rules, they also included things like women being the property of men, and the rules slaves had to live by, and when killing other tribes and taking all their virgin females was ok, etc., etc.
I realize this helps you maintain your current lifestyle, but it's Fuzzy thinking.
Yes it is possible to be in a camp in hopes for reform which is certainly liberal, but you cant deny the bigoted history, which still has a an institution with figurehead that tells one part of the world one thing then tells another part of the world another.
Just like gay republicans or even women or black republicans. YES it is possible, my only question is WHY?
Same with even liberal black Christians. MLK is certainly was an empathetic man, but the slave trade that brought most blacks to the United States were white Christians who forced them to convert and raised the generations afterwards as slaves, and even after slavery ended bible based bigotry was used to fight desegregation.
I really do love my well intended liberal believing friends, but they have to know, whatever good they think their religion provides, there is a right wing to that same religion that is using the same book to justify their morality too.
But again, that goes with ALL religions worldwide, not just Catholics and not just Christianity.
(February 4, 2016 at 3:13 pm)athrock Wrote: No, today people claim that it is all just "made up bullshit" so that they can do whatever they want.
No it is made up bullshit. Prove otherwise. Go ahead. I'll be waiting. You don't even know who wrote the fucking old testament. Nobody does. So I don't know how the fuck anyone can say it's true. And don't give me the JESUS bullshit either, because you can't prove Jesus said any of that either. You have absolutely no evidence that proves that the bible is valid. NONE. Like the sheep you are, you'll continue following it.
You can call it hedonism if you like, though this is not a term that is commonly used among believers. And I have never said that all atheists are...etc, etc. nor would I say that all believers are holy, righteous, etc. Humans fall in various places along a spectrum of understanding, and I see no reason why an atheist cannnot make good decisions and live as a moral man.
When I first look at you, I see your body, your flesh, and this may or may not appeal to me. Dating starts here. Drinking buddies are based on this level of relationship. Then, as I get to know you, I learn more about how you think, what your views are, etc. This is your mind (composed of your intellect, emotions and will), and knowing your mind is the when real friendships and marriages begin to be formed. Finally, the innermost (or highest) part of you is your spirit. It is this portion of our being that can be opened to god, and it consists of conscience and intuition.
Now, a person may be carnal if they live primarily for the pleasures of the flesh which we've already discussed. You may know people who are "foodies", for example. Alternatively, someone may be "soulish" if they are moved primarily by their intellect (the world of ideas and information) or their emotions (love, jealousy, etc.). The will is that part of us that chooses between the information presented by the intellect, the emotions and the body.
Here's an example: the body wants sex, the emotions demand love, and the intellect cautions that he's married to your best friend. What do you choose?
The moral atheist might say goodnight and go home alone rather than invite her best friend's husband in for a romp. (And the Christian might jump him first chance, but that's another matter.)
The point I'll close with is this: While it may be possible to live a "good" life as a fleshly or soulish person, prior to the spiritual regeneration which occurs when someone is born again, the spirit is not open to the things of God, and it is impossible to live as a SPIRITUAL man. You have no antenna (or no satellite dish) with which to receive the input of God in your life. Only through baptism and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit are we able to hear the things that God wants to reveal to us each day. This is why much of what Christians say falls on deaf ears. So to speak.
And even many believers do not have their dishes pointed in the right direction which explains why their reception is so obviously poor. This, in turn, leads to the hypocrisy which scandalizes you so.
You're full of assertions you can't prove. You can't prove that we have souls, for example. There is no god, there are no souls. Anyone who tells us what god says, thinks, or does is lying. It's all a means of controlling other humans.
Now, when you prove that god exists, and that we have souls, you might have an argument worth listening to. Maybe. Until then, you're just a troll who enjoys judging other people and splattering your crap all over the internet.
We might be bi-partite - body and soul. That was Augustine's view, I think.
(February 4, 2016 at 3:34 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Former Catholic myself, my mom still is.
Yes it is possible to be in a camp in hopes for reform which is certainly liberal, but you cant deny the bigoted history, which still has a an institution with figurehead that tells one part of the world one thing then tells another part of the world another.
Just like gay republicans or even women or black republicans. YES it is possible, my only question is WHY?
Same with even liberal black Christians. MLK is certainly was an empathetic man, but the slave trade that brought most blacks to the United States were white Christians who forced them to convert and raised the generations afterwards as slaves, and even after slavery ended bible based bigotry was used to fight desegregation.
I really do love my well intended liberal believing friends, but they have to know, whatever good they think their religion provides, there is a right wing to that same religion that is using the same book to justify their morality too.
But again, that goes with ALL religions worldwide, not just Catholics and not just Christianity.
(February 4, 2016 at 3:13 pm)athrock Wrote: No, today people claim that it is all just "made up bullshit" so that they can do whatever they want.
No it is made up bullshit. Prove otherwise. Go ahead. I'll be waiting. You don't even know who wrote the fucking old testament. Nobody does. So I don't know how the fuck anyone can say it's true. And don't give me the JESUS bullshit either, because you can't prove Jesus said any of that either. You have absolutely no evidence that proves that the bible is valid. NONE. Like the sheep you are, you'll continue following it.
Why are you so angry?
If you met me at a dinner party, you'd probably think I was a pretty nice person. You disagree with my views, but I haven't said anything particularly rude or out of line.
So, where is YOUR anger coming from, and why is it directed at me?
Is evangelism/apologism what you do at dinner parties Athrock? Because if so, like you do here...then yeah, I'd probably think you were a dick, an even bigger dick, point of fact.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(February 4, 2016 at 3:08 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: Yep, they weren't god's rules. They were men's rules. While they were busy coming up with rules, they also included things like women being the property of men, and the rules slaves had to live by, and when killing other tribes and taking all their virgin females was ok, etc., etc.
I realize this helps you maintain your current lifestyle, but it's Fuzzy thinking.
No, religious beliefs are a position, not a "lifestyle".
But neither the OT or NT are consistent on which rules were to be abandon and which rules were to be upheld. Even in the New Testament Jesus says he was there to fulfill the law.
The Bible is a very sexist book and not even the NT got rid of it, women at best were used as props to make the male heros look good.
The bible as a piece of literature was written for the people back then, not now. And in most of antiquity even polytheism kids/girls and women were considered to be the property of the male head of the household and were often bartered between families and tribes.
The bible does condone taking your enemies property and even kids and women as prizes in war. WHY? Because in most of antiquity even polytheism, when you won a conflict what you defeated you owned.
