(February 4, 2016 at 9:49 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(February 4, 2016 at 9:36 am)Irrational Wrote: Did you read this part?

He says he has a great life and wishes everyone had a life as great as his. That's a far cry from saying "he wants everyone to suffer."

He also said being a Catholic is hard. Reread the first paragraph I quoted.

It's fine to look to the implication of what he's saying as well. You can't just focus on whether or not something is explicitly said.

(February 4, 2016 at 9:38 am)Cato Wrote: Ah yes, ye olde hate the sin not the sinner routine. It's hard to take seriously someone who simultaneously refers to John Lennon as a kind of idiot, yet wants us to accept his assertion that homosexuality is somehow as harmful as eating sand.

What about Prever's idea that it is possible to be joyfully homosexual, celibate and Catholic?

(February 4, 2016 at 9:54 am)Irrational Wrote:

(February 4, 2016 at 9:49 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: He says he has a great life and wishes everyone had a life as great as his. That's a far cry from saying "he wants everyone to suffer."

He also said being a Catholic is hard. Reread the first paragraph I quoted.

It's fine to look to the implication of what he's saying as well. You can't just focus on whether or not something is explicitly said.

Would you agree or disagree that being Catholic is hard?

Doesn't this mean that following the teachings of Jesus is not easy and requires some genuine self-denial?

(February 4, 2016 at 10:34 am)athrock Wrote:

(February 4, 2016 at 9:54 am)Irrational Wrote: He also said being a Catholic is hard. Reread the first paragraph I quoted.

It's fine to look to the implication of what he's saying as well. You can't just focus on whether or not something is explicitly said.

Would you agree or disagree that being Catholic is hard?

Doesn't this mean that following the teachings of Jesus is not easy and requires some genuine self-denial?

Well, exactly my point. Perhaps not everyone wants to live like that. Give me one good reason why I should place restrictions imposed by your or his religion on how I should live.

(February 4, 2016 at 9:52 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: But I don't see the problem with hating the sin, not the sinner. We all do it, whether we use the words "sin/sinner" or not, is just a matter of semantics. 

That doesn't surprise me..you are a catholic after all.  You don't see the problem with polite and gentile bigotry of the "Smile to your face..stab you in the soul......" variety? I gotta tell ya, I'm not having any trouble -at all- seeing the problems with that.

(February 4, 2016 at 10:48 am)Rhythm Wrote:

(February 4, 2016 at 9:52 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: But I don't see the problem with hating the sin, not the sinner. We all do it, whether we use the words "sin/sinner" or not, is just a matter of semantics. 

You don't see the problem with polite and gentile bigotry of the "Smile to your face..stab you in the soul......" variety?

Bold mine. Is this a Freudian slip?

Well, I should start by re-affirming that I work in a Catholic church on the weekends, and that I do not believe god exists.  -- So hopefully people won't post wholly babble verses or church doctrine quotes in responses, thinking that those sources will convince me of anything.

I think that it is a very, very, very rare asexual person who can joyfully be celibate, and has no real desire for a fulfilling relationship with another human being.  I also think that the "rules" that have been told to me by a priest "God made you homosexual, but you cannot act on your impulses, because homosexual acts are a sin" -- is moronic and vile.  Even worse was the assertion that followed: "You must have been made for a greater purpose.  You will have more time and money because you don't have children, so you must use those advantages to serve God".  

I recently was asked to play a church wedding for a very lovely young couple.  They were a joy to work with.  The Bride had been raised by two men.  (One was her biological father, not that it matters.)  The Bishop learned of this, and very magnanimously allowed the wedding to take place - with certain conditions.  The Bride's fathers were not to be allowed in the sanctuary.  This is a straight couple getting married.  They were devout Catholics and wanted a proper church wedding.  The Bishop refused to even let the Bride's biological father walk her down the aisle.  There were some sympathetic priests who set up Mass in a nearby rose garden, and allowed the service to proceed.  I do not know if they suffered any repercussions for their act of kindness.

Finding a homosexual Catholic who is asexual enough, and devout enough, to find the celibate life joyous?  It's like finding a unicorn.  And the next question, of course, is why this person didn't enter the priesthood.  ?   I know 5 gay priests just in my diocese.  There is also the question about what kind of problems such devout sexual repression creates - - but I think that might belong in another thread.

"Gay Marriage is Impossible"

Yeah, that's where the homophobia is. Saying that gay marriage isn't possible, and expecting people to be celibate their entire lives. It's a bunch of fucking bullshit, and fucking cunts like Christians are the ones who expect it. I'd call this moron who wrote this letter a fucker if I didn't feel pity for them being told that wanting to have sex is wrong, and that they're so fucking scared of disobeying a cunt of a god that they're celibate for life. I feel fine calling them a moron because they still believe in the bullshit they're being sold.

Guess the fuck what? Gay Marriage is absolutely possible. The church is so god damn homophobic. "We like Gays! As long as they don't have sex!" Which is simply bullshit. Of course if their fucking priests rape little boys, then they're okay with it. Even though they expect straight priests to be goddamn celibate.

And guess the fuck what else? YOU LIVE IN THE WORLD WHERE MEN CAN MARRY MEN AND WOMEN CAN MARRY WOMEN. If you aren't okay with that because of your religion, then you're a fucking bigot. Yes, even if you're gay, you can be biggoted against gay people. Do you think Black people can't be racist against black people? They can! Marriage was created by man. It predates the Judeo-Christian religion for fucks sake. That much should be a CLUE that your God did not invent marriage. As for what he intended? That's bullshit. And the sand comparison? GIve me a fucking break. It's much more like if you forbid your daughter from eating fruit because you expect her to eat vegetables. You let your son eat Vegetables, but forbid him from eating fruit. That's what it's fucking like.

Is your god so incompetent, that he created an entire fucking sexuality for people that he expects them not to go along with? Or did that come about as another goddamn mistake of his? Or is it the "First Sin" bullshit, which according to most catholics never fucking happened. And if it came about because of sin, then that's still fucking bullshit because it's still created by your goddamn motherfucking cunt of a god. Of course he's incompetent. Look at all the genetic diseases out there. Clearly he's incompetent. The nicest thing you could say about such a god is that he doesn't exist. That'd be the biggest compliment you could give him, because that's how fucking incompetent he is.

You want to be celebrate all your life? That's up to you. You know what's not up to you or the fucking church? If other people are, and if other people get married. Your church does not hold a monopoly on marriage. They don't get to decide. No god ordained them the deciders of everything. If he did tell him to come down and fucking face me. Tell him to come down here and fucking tell me to my face, so I can tell him where the fuck to shove it.

Just more proof that the fucking Catholic Church and most of the goddamn churches out there are bigots who think they're better than everyone else. They can go fuck themselves to be honest.

One should not have to suffer through celibacy due to another's bigotry.

(February 4, 2016 at 10:44 am)Irrational Wrote:

(February 4, 2016 at 10:34 am)athrock Wrote: Would you agree or disagree that being Catholic is hard?

Doesn't this mean that following the teachings of Jesus is not easy and requires some genuine self-denial?

Well, exactly my point. Perhaps not everyone wants to live like that. Give me one good reason why I should place restrictions imposed by your or his religion on how I should live.

Because if these "restrictions" are from God, it would be wise to follow them.