Why the USA is a disgrace

[WinterHold]

Maybe you'd be so kind as to quote where I argued that we hadn't?

I got carried out and ignored the parts of your post, which condemned the intervention in Iraq and the support of Israel..
Accept my apologies if you may.

Well, the fact is that 

The dollar petrodollar was a valued commodity because of American stability, not because the oil came from this or that country.

Thumpalumpacus; a link like that won't do the trick. 
What I mean is; market exchange is something, and "robbing" is something else.
Do you seriously believe, that Al-Saud & U.S corrupted officials, would let out the numbers of barrels exchanged for free ?


As for importing from Canada; Tar Sands are has scary implications :

http://www.desmogblog.com/top-10-facts-c...nformation

It's more destructive to the environment than regular oil extraction.
Canada can supply the U.S, but can it supply to the whole world ? that I doubt. Let's assume other countries also used this method, I think pollution levels would kill us by then.

Conventional oil is still very highly needed. 

The world wouldn't fall. There would be an economic crisis, perhaps, but the other oil producers -- Russia, Canada, Indonesia, Nigeria, Venezuela, and others -- would rake in a fortune at the higher prices. On the other hand, if -- make that when -- the Middle East runs dry, you will see Saudi Arabia slide into irrelevance and probably revolution. I, for one, won't shed a tear.

Me too. After all, the Sauds sold themselves, the land & the people to America & Britain. A revolution there would be a good riddance.
As for the economic crisis, we are actually living one that might bring the market crumbling; in case you didn't notice: 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bryanrich/20...d311871084
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree...capitalism

So if oil -for any reason- was shaken in this stage, we are looking at a disaster that could bring down the whole economic system.

You actually don't know how I think; you're making an unjustified assumption based on the fact that I don't agree with you.

You have to excuse me. Before 2008, speaking -or even citing- the possibility of an economical collapse, was enough to make you "labeled" as a conspiracy theory maniac.
Speaking about whole economies falling in Europe, was also worthy of entitling you with the name : "tin-foil". Then Greece happened.

So, people like me who warn about how corrupted the system of the world today is; warning of a close collapse, were always fought and called names by governments, officials, media & above all : the mainstream that repeats what have been told to them.

That's why these discussions can heat up.

The dollar is actually a fiat currency. Look it up. I'll wait.

You mean "was converted" into fiat, in 1971 by Nixon. Or as I like to call it "the big one".

I don't know you very well so I don't impute attitudes to you. I'd appreciate it if you returned the favor.

I assumed that based on your comment.
I didn't mean to offend you.

Read the stats for yourself in the link I provided above.

The stats told the world once, that Iraq has WMDs.

Do you live in America? Do you live in a capitalist nation? When's the last time a major invention came out of the Middle East? Do you understand the concept of market forces?

Nothing is coming out from this region nowadays, because we are mere slaves.

Through the Sykes-Picot agreement, Britain,France & Russia (along with some traitors -Arab regimes-), we were doomed to live like slaves, doing nothing in our lives, but waiting in the barns our torturers locked us in, to work forever and ever.

Yes; I do live in the heart of capitalism. I'm the working class that dies first during the search for natural resources that would benefit you.

[Joods]

lol

But they have Peanut Butter M&Ms and we don't!

We only have Peanut ones

Tell you what...

You send me a case of Violet Crumble and I'll send you half a case of Peanut Butter M&M's considering the weight of a bag of M&M's equals about a dozen Violet Crumble bars. It's only fair.

I am totally addicted to those things. Haven't had one in ages and we can't get them here.

[Edwardo Piet]

What!

That's it, I'm shipping you to America where there's a fucking famine of the letter u for some reason

I'd love it if you shipped me to America as long as I can stay there

[Thumpalumpacus]

Thumpalumpacus; a link like that won't do the trick. 
What I mean is; market exchange is something, and "robbing" is something else.
Do you seriously believe, that Al-Saud & U.S corrupted officials, would let out the numbers of barrels exchanged for free ?

If you're insinuating those numbers are false, you'll need evidence.

As for importing from Canada; Tar Sands are has scary implications :

http://www.desmogblog.com/top-10-facts-c...nformation

It's more destructive to the environment than regular oil extraction.

Irrelevant, in economic terms, and our discussion is about economics. Stick to the discussion at hand and quit trying to throw sand in the eyes of the readers.

Canada can supply the U.S, but can it supply to the whole world ? that I doubt.

I've already pointed out to you that this is a strawman you're building. If you're going to argue against facts, could you at least do so honestly?

Let's assume other countries also used this method, I think pollution levels would kill us by then.

The techniques used to extract Canadian oil cannot be used when the oil is deposited in a different manner. This "let's assume" horseshit is just that, horseshit, because liquid deposits cannot be processed like tarsands.

Rather than "let's assume", why don't you stop assuming that you are right, and instead start reading about the topic you're opining on? Because it's clear to me that you don't know your ass from third base about it.

So if oil -for any reason- was shaken in this stage, we are looking at a disaster that could bring down the whole economic system.

Define "shaken". Oil was at $120/bbl in August of 08 ... the world still turned.

You actually don't know how I think; you're making an unjustified assumption based on the fact that I don't agree with you.

You have to excuse me. Before 2008, speaking -or even citing- the possibility of an economical collapse, was enough to make you "labeled" as a conspiracy theory maniac.

No, I don't have to excuse you. I expect you to treat me as an individual person, rather than a stereotypical this-or-that. I am giving you that courtesy, and I expect it in return.

The dollar is actually a fiat currency. Look it up. I'll wait.

You mean "was converted" into fiat, in 1971 by Nixon. Or as I like to call it "the big one".

Wait. You said in your last post that it was pegged to oil. Now you're agreeing with me that it's a fiat currency.

You need to get your facts straight before you post, so that I don't have to point out these self-contradictions of yours.

I assumed that based on your comment.
I didn't mean to offend you.

You should probably stop making assumptions about things and people you don't know, then.

The stats told the world once, that Iraq has WMDs.

No, they didn't. Lying men did.

These numbers, however, are of a different stripe. Your attempt to assert their dishonesty without providing any support for your accusation is empty argumentation emanating from a person who seems to be afraid to admit error.

Very unimpressive.

Do you live in America? Do you live in a capitalist nation? When's the last time a major invention came out of the Middle East? Do you understand the concept of market forces?

Nothing is coming out from this region nowadays, because we are mere slaves.

Answer my questions, please. There's a point to them, I assure you.

As for Arabs being slaves, you get what you settle for. If you don't like the regimes which are selling out your interests, turn them out of office.

Yes; I do live in the heart of capitalism. I'm the working class that dies first during the search for natural resources that would benefit you.

Oh, the melodrama! If you're dead, how the hell are you posting?That's right, you carry your fight forward courageously ... online. Forgive the rolling of my eyes.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

I adore Alan Turing.
Guess which country i hate?

[WinterHold]

Thumpalumpacus

If you're insinuating those numbers are false, you'll need evidence.

People lie. Governments precisely do it on such a huge scale.
Like the WMD lie that costed the lives of 2 million innocent Iraqies and lots of Americans too.

People lie. That's my evidence. And the government that is included in these stats, is the same government that sold a lie, that costed the lives of millions.

Irrelevant, in economic terms, and our discussion is about economics. Stick to the discussion at hand and quit trying to throw sand in the eyes of the readers.

Assuming a "perfect plane/environment  that is clear of variables -you call it sand-" is useful when the discussion is about making a general rule . Though in this situation, we're actually discussing a political/economical/military/environmental issue; it is so complex and each of the elements (variables) composing this issue cannot be separated unless we want to study a certain element to conclude a strategy, or judge the benefit or negativity of a certain technique.

It all melts to compose the big picture.  

I've already pointed out to you that this is a strawman you're building. If you're going to argue against facts, could you at least do so honestly?

How so ?
Tar Sands are proven to be more expensive to process, I didn't plant this strawman, neither did I build it. The scarecrow is already walking in the shadow of the oil industry.

The techniques used to extract Canadian oil cannot be used when the oil is deposited in a different manner. This "let's assume" horseshit is just that, horseshit, because liquid deposits cannot be processed like tarsands.

Rather than "let's assume", why don't you stop assuming that you are right, and instead start reading about the topic you're opining on? Because it's clear to me that you don't know your ass from third base about it.

I'm assuming for the sake of your argument, I wanted to meet on common ground -that Canada will keep supplying the U.S and everybody wil23l live happily ever after-, but fine, let's forget about the "perfect plane that has no variables", and let's discuss the real issue.

Define "shaken". Oil was at $120/bbl in August of 08 ... the world still turned.

The price drops we see today.
Oil sands are expensive. With the barrel stuck below 30 $ , it's logical to ask how Canada would be able to handle the losses that results from the price difference.

And increasing the production rate causes huge environmental issues. So, that's how complicated the issue is.

No, I don't have to excuse you. I expect you to treat me as an individual person, rather than a stereotypical this-or-that. I am giving you that courtesy, and I expect it in return.

You must excuse everybody, because every soul is living a struggle you know nothing about.

Wait. You said in your last post that it was pegged to oil. Now you're agreeing with me that it's a fiat currency.

You need to get your facts straight before you post, so that I don't have to point out these self-contradictions of yours.

You didn't get the irony of the system; it's oil priced in a fiat currency.
In other words; the Sauds have sold their souls in exchange of American toilet paper.

No, they didn't. Lying men did.

These numbers, however, are of a different stripe. Your attempt to assert their dishonesty without providing any support for your accusation is empty argumentation emanating from a person who seems to be afraid to admit error.

Very unimpressive.

Numbers can be forged too.

and no, I wasn't born in America. 

Oh, the melodrama! If you're dead, how the hell are you posting?That's right, you carry your fight forward courageously ... online. Forgive the rolling of my eyes.

Yeah, you need to come here and see the torture methods that our Arab regimes have for us 

[Thumpalumpacus]

People lie. Governments precisely do it on such a huge scale.
Like the WMD lie that costed the lives of 2 million innocent Iraqies and lots of Americans too.

People lie. That's my evidence. And the government that is included in these stats, is the same government that sold a lie, that costed the lives of millions.

Sorry, "because I said so" isn't evidence.

How so ?
Tar Sands are proven to be more expensive to process, I didn't plant this strawman, neither did I build it. The scarecrow is already walking in the shadow of the oil industry.

Because you're still acting as if I wrote about the entire world, when I was only writing about America -- and the numbers I've pointed out to you demonstrate that we get three times as much oil from Canada as we do from Saudi Arabia.

Pretending otherwise is a strawman.

The price drops we see today.
Oil sands are expensive. With the barrel stuck below 30 $ , it's logical to ask how Canada would be able to handle the losses that results from the price difference.

Except that is not the issue under discussion. The issue is whether or not America can live without Saudi oil.

You must excuse everybody, because every soul is living a struggle you know nothing about.

No, I mustn't excuse someone making unfounded and uncharitable assumptions about me. I don't do that to you. I mustn't excuse your refusal to reciprocate the courtesy.

You didn't get the irony of the system; it's oil priced in a fiat currency.
In other words; the Sauds have sold their souls in exchange of American toilet paper.

You don't understand the concept of fiat currency.

Numbers can be forged too.

Evidence for that happening in this case? And no, "because I said so" won't cut any ice.

and no, I wasn't born in America.

Then your pontifications on American psychology have no grounding in experience. I see. 

Yeah, you need to come here and see the torture methods that our Arab regimes have for us 

You've been tortured, then?

[WinterHold]

People lie. Governments precisely do it on such a huge scale.
Like the WMD lie that costed the lives of 2 million innocent Iraqies and lots of Americans too.

People lie. That's my evidence. And the government that is included in these stats, is the same government that sold a lie, that costed the lives of millions.

Sorry, "because I said so" isn't evidence.

To you and to many others, it might not be. 
But one must take leaps of faith to survive, we don't get the luxury of the academic, well documented evidence all the time. 

Because you're still acting as if I wrote about the entire world, when I was only writing about America -- and the numbers I've pointed out to you demonstrate that we get three times as much oil from Canada as we do from Saudi Arabia.

Pretending otherwise is a strawman.

And my point is that between the U.S & Canada it's trading, while between Saudi Arabia the U.S, it is "giving oil in exchange of keeping the Sauds on the throne".

You'll never find the shipments on any public stats.

Except that is not the issue under discussion. The issue is whether or not America can live without Saudi oil.

"Arab oil"; not just "Saudi".
Iraq, Libya are full of oil too. The Sauds are not the only minions.

Discussing tar sands, the price of oil extraction & Canada's ability to keep supplying is the core of what we were discussing. 
To answer whether the U.S would survive or not, we must validate the new supplier's ability to keep supplying.

No, I mustn't excuse someone making unfounded and uncharitable assumptions about me. I don't do that to you. I mustn't excuse your refusal to reciprocate the courtesy.

I can totally agree with you if we're speaking about race, physical features and so.
But when it's about opinions, expect to be judged a lot for defending a certain front or holding a certain belief. Excusing others, comes from the concept of "giving the benefit of the doubt": i.e you don't know what they went through to carry on such a belief.

 You don't understand the concept of fiat currency.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fiatmoney.asp

I think I totally do. 

Evidence for that happening in this case? And no, "because I said so" won't cut any ice.

Just like fiat money; I took a leap of faith. 
Then I guess the ice would still be there.

Then your pontifications on American psychology have no grounding in experience. I see. 

You underestimate the internet and Hollywood.

You've been tortured, then?

No.
I pray to God it doesn't happen anytime soon.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Sorry, "because I said so" isn't evidence.

To you and to many others, it might not be. 
But one must take leaps of faith to survive, we don't get the luxury of the academic, well documented evidence all the time. 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand that's the end of the conversation.

When you are basing your points on faith, having a discussion with you is pointless. Goodbye.

[WinterHold]

To you and to many others, it might not be. 
But one must take leaps of faith to survive, we don't get the luxury of the academic, well documented evidence all the time. 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand that's the end of the conversation.

When you are basing your points on faith, having a discussion with you is pointless.  Goodbye.

I'm sorry.
The files I need to get the evidence from, are highly protected & classified, heck, poor Assange tried & got thrown in jail.

When you're basing the worth of your money on faith, too, then demand people to "bring an evidence on your crime", discussion  in that case is also pointless.


Byes.