Why I Am Anti-Theist

[abaris]

Religion is child abuse. I forgive my parents, and they have asked for forgiveness too many times now that they are free. I'm not hesitant, though. Religion abuses children, women, lgbt, government, education, money, etc. I am very much anti religion and feel strongly about it.

Yes, because you grew up with radicals. I for one have nothing but fond memories of my parents. They mildly encouraged a mild form of religiosity. We went to church off and on, and they had no problem with me staying in bed, rather than going, when I grew older.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

The role of parents in society is, and probably will always be a necessity, but parents need to understand that society will not tolerate them using their children against the interests of society, and those of the children themselves.

And what if they choose not to do so?  What then?

I'm sorry, but I don't think I understand your question.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

Religion is child abuse. I forgive my parents, and they have asked for forgiveness too many times now that they are free. I'm not hesitant, though. Religion abuses children, women, lgbt, government, education, money, etc. I am very much anti religion and feel strongly about it.

Yes, because you  grew up with radicals. I for one have nothing but fond memories of my parents. They mildly encouraged a mild form of religiosity. We went to church off and on, and they had no problem with me staying in bed, rather than going, when I grew older.

Well, that's good for you, but you should understand that this was not the case for a lot of children growing up with Xtian parents, and it's not only the radicals who force their kids to go along with them to church. Their reasons may vary, it may be to them a matter of social appearances or discipline as any true belief. Non-radical churches also run Sunday schools and vacation bible schools.

"Mild" is certainly in the mind, but you should not presume that the effects of any religious teachings to children are necessarily that. None of them are good, and that's the important point.

[abaris]

Well, that's good for you, but you should understand that this was not the case for a lot of children growing up with Xtian parents, and it's not only the radicals who force their kids to go along with them to church. Their reasons may vary, it may be to them a matter of social appearances or discipline as any true belief. Non-radical churches also run Sunday schools and vacation bible schools.

"Mild" is certainly in the mind, but you should not presume that the effects of any religious teachings to children are necessarily that. None of them are good, and that's the important point.

Yeah, but it's not the rule in our societies. Not even in Murrica.

Alert me if it becomes the rule and I will share your point.

[God of Mr. Hanky]

Well, that's good for you, but you should understand that this was not the case for a lot of children growing up with Xtian parents, and it's not only the radicals who force their kids to go along with them to church. Their reasons may vary, it may be to them a matter of social appearances or discipline as any true belief. Non-radical churches also run Sunday schools and vacation bible schools.

"Mild" is certainly in the mind, but you should not presume that the effects of any religious teachings to children are necessarily that. None of them are good, and that's the important point.

Yeah, but it's not the rule in our societies. Not even in Murrica.

Alert me if it becomes the rule and I will share your point.

What isn't the rule? Do you think some Xtian doctrines are good? I would contend not, and it is a rule that they build walls which even the most moderate Xtian will not see through regarding fair social policies and those know-it-all, angry people they know as atheists.

The only way forward for a better world is one without religious thought.

[Angrboda]

The role of parents in society is, and probably will always be a necessity, but parents need to understand that society will not tolerate them using their children against the interests of society, and those of the children themselves.

And what if they choose not to do so?  What then?

I'm sorry, but I don't think I understand your question.

What exactly is society "not tolerating" religious indoctrination going to look like? Angry words from atheists? Secular laws? Religious discrimination? What?

[drfuzzy]

Well, that's good for you, but you should understand that this was not the case for a lot of children growing up with Xtian parents, and it's not only the radicals who force their kids to go along with them to church. Their reasons may vary, it may be to them a matter of social appearances or discipline as any true belief. Non-radical churches also run Sunday schools and vacation bible schools.

"Mild" is certainly in the mind, but you should not presume that the effects of any religious teachings to children are necessarily that. None of them are good, and that's the important point.

Yeah, but it's not the rule in our societies. Not even in Murrica.

Alert me if it becomes the rule and I will share your point.

Seriously?  I know a lot of middle-of-the-road, non-fundamentalist Protestants and Catholics here in Bible Belt 'Murica that would absolutely lose their shit if their child refused to attend church each Sunday.  I've sat with the groups of bored teenagers, finding places to hide with their friends in the choir loft, texting, playing games, waiting for the boredom to be over.  A large group of Catholic teens, (who attend a Catholic High School) who were having to stay after for "Confirmation Class" told me that they didn't believe - but they're doing it to keep peace with their parents. I think this is pretty normal.
    Now, I didn't even dare think about saying that I didn't want to go to church.  My Mother would have beaten me to death.   

[God of Mr. Hanky]

I'm sorry, but I don't think I understand your question.

we'd

What exactly is society "not tolerating" religious indoctrination going to look like? Angry words from atheists? Secular laws? Religious discrimination? What?

IDK - how about we simply demand that society recognize the abuse of authority with children for what it is, and then leave it to CPS to enforce?

Of course there must be some activity prerequisite to changing the law, which 2% of the population cannot change when we aren't that 2% which has all the money. The anti-slavery and women's suffrage movements didn't begin with anyone trying to change the law. For now we should be discussing publicly why it's so wrong. We should be discussing in society not the naively utopian coexistence of ideas, but how the use of an authority position with children to teach them doctrine-based ideas which will limit their horizons within the group which believes them is abusive and potentially harmful. If we can get more people to understand how childhood indoctrination imposes beliefs, leaving rendering their later right to informed choice pervasively difficult, then maybe they'll come closer to dealing with religious doctrine the way they do other types of porn now.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Now, I didn't even dare think about saying that I didn't want to go to church. My Mother would have beaten me to death.

I remember going to my da, who often described himself as a cliff-hanging Catholic ('we don't believe in God, but we do believe that Mary was his mother') and telling him that I didn't believe and I didn't want to attend Mass anymore. He very calmly and patiently explained that he didn't believe either, but still went to Mass every Sunday, and that I was risking breaking Mam's heart if I refused to go. He didn't threaten me (not that he ever did), but made his point. He wouldn't have me take the chance on hurting my mother.

I went to Mass until I left home.

Boru

[God of Mr. Hanky]

Now, I didn't even dare think about saying that I didn't want to go to church. My Mother would have beaten me to death.

I remember going to my da, who often described himself as a cliff-hanging Catholic ('we don't believe in God, but we do believe that Mary was his mother') and telling him that I didn't believe and I didn't want to attend Mass anymore. He very calmly and patiently explained that he didn't believe either, but still went to Mass every Sunday, and that I was risking breaking Mam's heart if I refused to go. He didn't threaten me (not that he ever did), but made his point. He wouldn't have me take the chance on hurting my mother.

I went to Mass until I left home.

Boru

I find that sort of emotional manipulation through drama disgusting. If your mother really cared rhat much about you, then she would have given up her selfish delusions of being the matriarch of an idyllic Xtian family. She may have thought of better ways to bond with her children, such as going for walks together on Sundays. My mother wasted one fine Xmas Eve for us last year at church when I traveled to visit her, and it was two hours I'll never get back!

What about your father, when you were ready to quit? Did he help her teach you the ideas which he didn't believe himself? Parents should not for any reason teach what they know are lies!

So you werent physically coerced into church attendence, although you weren't particularly willing when you went. Please be aware there is much coercion going on in other countries, particularly in the US.