Question for the anti's.......?

[drfuzzy]

Live FOREVER?  If you're talking eternity, then you would watch the death of the Solar System from . . . somewhere.  You could sure hope that faster-than-light spaceships would have found other interesting planets to visit by then.  And if you're talking eternity, then you might even witness the end of the known universe . . . or the end and start of another, who knows? . . . from . . . somewhere.  
    As an atheist, I cannot really imagine an eternity of awareness in some non-corporeal state.  Even if that could be achieved, though - when would you get to the point where there was absolutely nothing "new" and nothing left to learn?   
    Now, IF I could be guaranteed of good health and a certain amount of wealth, an increased life span might be a good thing.  Time to learn anything you wanted, time to work on your own projects, something that might benefit the human race, that could be good.  I think the ability to choose when to call it quits might be necessary, however.  

Fun flights of fantasy . . . but now, yeah, I had better get back to work.

[ronedee]

The question is biased and unrelated to Christianity vs. 'anti's'
It is an argument putting yourself in the Christians foolish feelings of eternity.

I could just as easily state, hey religos, how do you feel about science finally discovering the answer to origins, would you like it? How can they answer yes or no!

If you wish to ask a fanciful question about Tinkerbell fairy dust giving you wings to fly around the rose garden as a tiny insect forever, I suspect you should first ask who in the hell would believe this crap (pretty sure the No's have it).

I cannot argue FOR the Christianity mythology. But if science is able to upload our internal minds to a supercomputer one day, I suppose yeah that would be good. But your ridiculous similarity idea with religion (as stated: Q for anti's) the BEST answer would be > That's ridiculous religious nonsense.

MY dreamlike state of ever lasting life would be FAR different to ANY religious misguided concept based on feelings!

I don't know where you got all that gibberish in my short question. If anyone is bias, it would be you. "anti" is a short for anti-theist. I've been around here long enough for people to point out their levels of non-belief might not mean complete atheism. Also, it would be fruitless asking a "pro-theist" if they want eternal life.

You can speculate my penchant for the afterlife.... but don't assume you are right.

My question was out of curiosity. And I appreciate the honest answers from most of you. I have some interesting thoughts provoked by the intriguing answers! I will comment later. thx R

[The Grand Nudger]

No, it wouldn't be pointless....classical greek theists managed to understand the problems with the eternal life song and dance before "christ" was a twinkle in a conmans eye.  They wrote the masterclass on it, which, if early christians weren't a gaggle of illiterate rednecks, would not have been lost on them anymore than it's lost on us today.  Hell, it rubbed off on them in spite of their ignorance, it's not as if -you- expect eternal life and eternal life alone.  You know better...you want eternal happiness and health to go with it.  Do you even imagine yourself aging in heaven......?  Do you think that a thousand years after your admittance through the pearly gates you'll be a wrinkled old prune, or worse.. a lonely half-mad cicada...like Tithonus?

Unlikely. 

[Whateverist]

Hello Ronny. Long time no see.

No I don't long for everlasting life, though if it were possible a certain level of Alzheimer's might be a useful way to deal with the routine losing its appeal. Perhaps that is all death is, a kind of reboot. Except for a truly refreshing reboot we might as well just start completely new. Every day there are beings starting completely anew. Maybe we're in heaven?

[Cephus]

Nope, not at all.  Death is a natural part of life.  You're born, you live and then you die.  Only an irrational idiot is afraid of that.  I have zero interest in living forever.

[Simon Moon]

I would sure like to have a substantially longer (healthy) life than what is now expected, but eternal...


HELL no!

[Thumpalumpacus]

Ok, anti's...... Do any of you wish for eternal life? You know? Live FOREVER?!

Seriously, if that is possible for any of you: I'd like to know the real reasons why you would NOT... which I'll assume most of you will answer.

And "IF" you do what to live forever. Why you would? 

Thanks ahead of time for your coherent, civil replies. 

No, I don't. I don't really want to live eternally in any place, because eventually I will have done as many things as anyone can think of, countless times. Eventually I'd want to be able to end my existence.

Second, you're talking about living eternally in a place where you think only what god wants you to think, and do only what god wants you to do. That is not a happy existence. That's like painting a smile on your face, because the only reason you'd be "happy" is that you're not allowed to feel other emotions. You get rewired the way someone else wants you to be, and that person is a narcissist. For god so loved the world my ass. The god of the bible doesn't know what love is.

No, eternal servitude doesn't appeal to me.

Which prompts the question, "What happened to the free will that this god is alleged to value so highly?"

[Chad32]

No, I don't. I don't really want to live eternally in any place, because eventually I will have done as many things as anyone can think of, countless times. Eventually I'd want to be able to end my existence.

Second, you're talking about living eternally in a place where you think only what god wants you to think, and do only what god wants you to do. That is not a happy existence. That's like painting a smile on your face, because the only reason you'd be "happy" is that you're not allowed to feel other emotions. You get rewired the way someone else wants you to be, and that person is a narcissist. For god so loved the world my ass. The god of the bible doesn't know what love is.

No, eternal servitude doesn't appeal to me.

Which prompts the question, "What happened to the free will that this god is alleged to value so highly?"

You have free will enough to choose. After that, you won't need it anymore. Such a strong authoritarian has little use for allowing free will.

[ronedee]

For Atheists and Theists to have this discussion to any constructive end,
the definition of what the reality of "Immortality" would actually BE like, must first be clarified.

When a Theist asks us if we want to live forever,
we have to also remember that a Theist wouldn't think of Eternal Life the same way an Atheist, would.

The Atheist considers the possibility of "Eternal Life" from a practical POV
and cannot avoid the conclusion that he would ultimately end up bored.

But when the Theist refers to "Eternal Life",
he is referring to this idyllic, drug-trip-like state of persistent, impossible, infinite euphoria,
where you are "one with God",
and you never feel anything negative, including boredom, ever again....like magic.

It reminds me of a line from "Interview with the Vampire" where the vampires are discussing how,
since the moment of their magical Vampire birth,
absolutely everything in the world now seems to pulse with a new energy it never had before,
and "had some fascination" to it.

I think this argument illustrates yet again how impossibly Theists and Atheists differ in their thought patterns,
because each will have difficulty accepting the other's version,
and each will be frustrated with the other's inability to see it as they, their opponent, does.

If God and Heaven exist, and Immortality is an impossibly, magically, perpetually-fascinating-yet-simultaneously-restful place
of no pain and no loss and no fatigue and no boredom
...then Yes, sure.  I'd sign up for that.

But I cannot, cannot, cannot believe in such a place. 

And goddamn if I will waste my brief time here on Earth passing up on enjoyments
or feeling bad about my basic human nature,
in the hopes that by doing so I will be granted a free pass to this absurd, mooted fairyland.

To address the concept of Immortality more from the Atheist's perspective,
I agree that forced Immortality would indeed be hellish,
and boredom would certainly, inevitably result.

(Note:  Anne Rice also touched on this subject:  in her Vampire books, the "young" vampires always seemed to struggle with the concept, too,
and often ended up walking into the sunlight to "kill" themselves because the prospect of Immortality was simply too much to bear).

However, I would love to have a Tardis, like in Doctor Who,
and be able to travel through time and space to different points, to enjoy the best parts.

Or, If I had a chance to re-live my life, and make some changes, I would take that opportunity.

I think the best version of "Immortality", for me,
would simply be my own life, as it is,
...just with none of the bad or unpleasant stuff that you don't want to do.

Youthfulness and good health to be indefinitely prolonged for both me and all my loved ones;
and time would just  not pass nearly as quickly;
for example, my "30s" wouldn't be a mere 10 years, but more like 100 years,
and every day would just be a nice, interesting, easy day in normal life,
and the only excitement would be that which I chose to add,
...every day would just be a slow news day, with no tragedies or disasters or crimes.

Imagine it like you're having this interesting, pleasant dream,
but you have the control to prevent the dream from careening off the tracks into nightmare;

You don't know what's going to happen next, in the dream,
and it's always interesting,
but you have the power to avoid the unpleasant stuff.

That, to me, would be a version of Immortality worth having;
THAT would be my idea of Heaven.

But again, it is nonsense.

So what is the point of altering your real life, now, in the effort to chase rainbows?

Great response! You've given the essence of my thoughts about the concepts we are divided on.

Obviously an unbeliever will relate eternal life to what is evident in their present state of existence. But, even our present s.o.e. provides constant change and new revelations, almost daily. Why limit yourselves to what you are today?

Imagine (thinking logically) for a minute that we are able to refresh our thought patterns, and renew our experiences (like updating the last/next 60 years in a minute or 2!). I believe a few in this thread alluded to that premise. Through some outside means of technology..... The possibilities are rather endless. Add to that; our limitless relationships we would have with others advanced minds, and personalities that we meet through the eons of time! I don't see much boredom in any of that. Also, the universe is a pretty vast playground! No. Realize that life "could" be pretty great and interesting with a constant supply of new and stimulating sources and adventures! 

All of a sudden things look a little better for a vote of not dying?

Now, with all the above fulfilled..... take all those negative aspects out of our "new" eternal lives. i.e. death, pain, suffering, lying, cheating, greed, hate, etc. etc. ETC..... The ultimate goal of humanity!

You then arrive where the believer is! Jesus basically tells us we cannot imagine heaven aka, "eternal life". And, if it only took God 6 days to create the universe and everything in it? Think about this: He's still working on heaven; ".....since the beginning of time!" 

Ok, so the stretch for you guys is the God thingy. But, I believe you can't refute the fact that eternal life would be interesting w/o all the trappings, boredom and bs called, the present human s.o.e.

Reverting to human logic here: Einstein is quoted, “Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”

Just food for thought my friends. Thanks again for all...eh... the good responses! 

[Aoi Magi]

For Atheists and Theists to have this discussion to any constructive end,
the definition of what the reality of "Immortality" would actually BE like, must first be clarified.

When a Theist asks us if we want to live forever,
we have to also remember that a Theist wouldn't think of Eternal Life the same way an Atheist, would.

The Atheist considers the possibility of "Eternal Life" from a practical POV
and cannot avoid the conclusion that he would ultimately end up bored.

But when the Theist refers to "Eternal Life",
he is referring to this idyllic, drug-trip-like state of persistent, impossible, infinite euphoria,
where you are "one with God",
and you never feel anything negative, including boredom, ever again....like magic.

It reminds me of a line from "Interview with the Vampire" where the vampires are discussing how,
since the moment of their magical Vampire birth,
absolutely everything in the world now seems to pulse with a new energy it never had before,
and "had some fascination" to it.

I think this argument illustrates yet again how impossibly Theists and Atheists differ in their thought patterns,
because each will have difficulty accepting the other's version,
and each will be frustrated with the other's inability to see it as they, their opponent, does.

If God and Heaven exist, and Immortality is an impossibly, magically, perpetually-fascinating-yet-simultaneously-restful place
of no pain and no loss and no fatigue and no boredom
...then Yes, sure.  I'd sign up for that.

But I cannot, cannot, cannot believe in such a place. 

And goddamn if I will waste my brief time here on Earth passing up on enjoyments
or feeling bad about my basic human nature,
in the hopes that by doing so I will be granted a free pass to this absurd, mooted fairyland.

To address the concept of Immortality more from the Atheist's perspective,
I agree that forced Immortality would indeed be hellish,
and boredom would certainly, inevitably result.

(Note:  Anne Rice also touched on this subject:  in her Vampire books, the "young" vampires always seemed to struggle with the concept, too,
and often ended up walking into the sunlight to "kill" themselves because the prospect of Immortality was simply too much to bear).

However, I would love to have a Tardis, like in Doctor Who,
and be able to travel through time and space to different points, to enjoy the best parts.

Or, If I had a chance to re-live my life, and make some changes, I would take that opportunity.

I think the best version of "Immortality", for me,
would simply be my own life, as it is,
...just with none of the bad or unpleasant stuff that you don't want to do.

Youthfulness and good health to be indefinitely prolonged for both me and all my loved ones;
and time would just  not pass nearly as quickly;
for example, my "30s" wouldn't be a mere 10 years, but more like 100 years,
and every day would just be a nice, interesting, easy day in normal life,
and the only excitement would be that which I chose to add,
...every day would just be a slow news day, with no tragedies or disasters or crimes.

Imagine it like you're having this interesting, pleasant dream,
but you have the control to prevent the dream from careening off the tracks into nightmare;

You don't know what's going to happen next, in the dream,
and it's always interesting,
but you have the power to avoid the unpleasant stuff.

That, to me, would be a version of Immortality worth having;
THAT would be my idea of Heaven.

But again, it is nonsense.

So what is the point of altering your real life, now, in the effort to chase rainbows?

Great response! You've given the essence of my thoughts about the concepts we are divided on.

Obviously an unbeliever will relate eternal life to what is evident in their present state of existence. But, even our present s.o.e. provides constant change and new revelations, almost daily. Why limit yourselves to what you are today?

Imagine (thinking logically) for a minute that we are able to refresh our thought patterns, and renew our experiences (like updating the last/next 60 years in a minute or 2!). I believe a few in this thread alluded to that premise. Through some outside means of technology..... The possibilities are rather endless. Add to that; our limitless relationships we would have with others advanced minds, and personalities that we meet through the eons of time! I don't see much boredom in any of that. Also, the universe is a pretty vast playground! No. Realize that life "could" be pretty great and interesting with a constant supply of new and stimulating sources and adventures! 

All of a sudden things look a little better for a vote of not dying?

Now, with all the above fulfilled..... take all those negative aspects out of our "new" eternal lives. i.e. death, pain, suffering, lying, cheating, greed, hate, etc. etc. ETC..... The ultimate goal of humanity!

You then arrive where the believer is! Jesus basically tells us we cannot imagine heaven aka, "eternal life". And, if it only took God 6 days to create the universe and everything in it? Think about this: He's still working on heaven; ".....since the beginning of time!" 

Ok, so the stretch for you guys is the God thingy. But, I believe you can't refute the fact that eternal life would be interesting w/o all the trappings, boredom and bs called, the present human s.o.e.

Reverting to human logic here: Einstein is quoted, “Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”

Just food for thought my friends. Thanks again for all...eh... the good responses! 

The difference you are missing is between living for a long time vs living for eternity. No matter how many different ways you find to enjoy life, they all become meaningless and insignificant when you have to live for eternity.