My views on objective morality

[LadyForCamus]

I think her feelings were hurt that the people she thought of as friends would treat her so curtly. Part of what makes her so endearing is the vulnerability she displays. That requires risk. I think she got more than she bargained for. Hopefully she'll just heal and bounce back. Sure do enjoy having her around.

There is a lot of risk involved here. Not just for the theists. For anyone who is honestly exposing their thoughts and feelings to this group of people. If we were not important to each other we wouldn't get so worked up over stuff like this. If I think her God is an immoral, abhorrent, inexcusable bastard I'm gonna say so. If I think her logic doesn't make sense I'm going to ask that she explain it better. If she doesn't want to, that's okay too. I can respect that. I'm sorry if she feels ganged up on. I very sincerely hope she sees this was not a personal attack from every direction. At least not from mine.

[Mister Agenda]

Good on you for cyber-bullying her enough to get her to agree with anything you say rather than waste her time trying to defend herself. You're a credit to something, I'm sure.

It's easy to pass judgement when you were...well, where the fuck were you during this discussion?

I was living my life. I can't spend every hour on the internet. Could you not think of something weaker than that to complain about?

[Whateverist]

I think her feelings were hurt that the people she thought of as friends would treat her so curtly.  Part of what makes her so endearing is the vulnerability she displays.  That requires risk.  I think she got more than she bargained for.  Hopefully she'll just heal and bounce back.  Sure do enjoy having her around.

There is a lot of risk involved here.  Not just for the theists.  For anyone who is honestly exposing their thoughts and feelings to this group of people.  If we were not important to each other we wouldn't get so worked up over stuff like this.  If I think her God is an immoral, abhorrent, inexcusable bastard I'm gonna say so.  If I think her logic doesn't make sense I'm going to ask that she explain it better.  If she doesn't want to, that's okay too.  I can respect that.  I'm sorry if she feels ganged up on.  I very sincerely hope she sees this was not a personal attack from every direction.  At least not from mine.  

So do I.

[LadyForCamus]

If you read my posts I actually did the exact opposite of giving up interacting with her.  I extended an unconditional invitation for further discussion, in fact.  Yes, a few of my posts were short and temperamental, but I slept on it and I like to think, did a better job of explaining myself this morning.  No one is infallible.  Least of all me.

And assuming that I would not have the position I have unless I had not read the thread speaks to your style of assigning failures on the part of your interlocuters as the most likely explanation for them not sharing your point of view.

I'm sure there are lots of people more fallible than you, I may be among them. It's not like I looked at your posts to CL and thought   'there goes Lady of Camus again, harassing people'. I wouldn't take the time for someone who hadn't given me reason to expect better.

I apologize. I did not mean it that way at all. I am sure there are plenty of valid reasons for any number of people to disagree with me on many subjects. I am always happy to consider that I have fucked up. If the way I came across toward CL in this thread is incongruent with the way I perceived myself as coming across, I will work harder to be more precise about my thoughts and feelings. In fact I thought I had done just so.

[LadyForCamus]

And assuming that I would not have the position I have unless I had not read the thread speaks to your style of assigning failures on the part of your interlocuters as the most likely explanation for them not sharing your point of view.

I'm sure there are lots of people more fallible than you, I may be among them. It's not like I looked at your posts to CL and thought   'there goes Lady of Camus again, harassing people'. I wouldn't take the time for someone who hadn't given me reason to expect better.

I apologize. I did not mean it that way at all. I am sure there are plenty of valid reasons for any number of people to disagree with me on many subjects. I am always happy to consider that I have fucked up. If the way I came across toward CL in this thread is incongruent with the way I perceived myself as coming across, I will work harder to be more precise about my thoughts and feelings. In fact I thought I had done just so. I spent a lot of time this morning explaining myself to her because I felt it was important.

[LadyForCamus]

I fail to see how what CL has said is an example of special pleading. The argument from evil basically states that God would not allow gratuitous evil, that is, evil that is not otherwise necessary. She has clearly elucidated the defense that she does not believe God has allowed unnecessary suffering, that he has a reason for its necessity which is consistent with a greater good. She has also said that she doesn't know what that reason is.

Nowhere in this do I see any special pleading. Could you be a little more precise in specifying your objection?

In other words, if such a judgement of gratuitous versus necessary evil can never be considered objectively morally acceptable here amongst us humans, is it not special pleading to give God allowance to do it for reason unknowable to us?

[God of Mr. Hanky]

It's easy to pass judgement when you were...well, where the fuck were you during this discussion?

I was living my life. I can't spend every hour on the internet. Could you not think of something weaker than that to complain about?

Can you think of anything weaker than to critique someone's comments when you haven't been following the thread for context? I know I can't.

You were unfairly hard on Lady For Camus, who should be allowed to press her point on a question of morality when it's raised. CL may have hurt feelings, but this is due to her own cognitive dissonance, which has turned out to be more pervasive than some of us realized - I was a theist myself, but i wasn't that immune to the blacklight of logic! I don't think this has been easy for Lady either, before you dropped in, and i believe she genuinely cares about CL (not a mean bastard as I am all too often, I know) so please step lightly with her if you're going to defend CL.

[Tiberius]

Good on you for cyber-bullying her enough to get her to agree with anything you say rather than waste her time trying to defend herself. You're a credit to something, I'm sure.

That and I'm sure she removed her avatar based on comments made in this thread regarding her appearance and whether or not she was actually a woman. It's petty to attack someone based on their appearance when that has nothing to do with the subject.

[Joods]

Well, catching up on all the comments, looks like I'm still being accused of "excusing the complicity of rape", or whatever the new way of wording it is. So I'm going to leave this thread. Feeling extremely sour about the whole forum in general right now and the people in it. I only hold people to the same standards as myselfand I would NEVER mind fuck anyone the way I'm being mind fucked here in regards to my position on rape. There are a lot of things I would never do/say to another person that get said to me quite often here, and I brush it off and make excuses for people all the time, but this in particular crosses a line for me. Thank you to the several people who defended me. To everyone else here who is continuing to tell me I think rape is anything other than what I actually said it is (objectively immoral, inherently evil) frankly, I don't want to have anything to do with you.

::bold mine::  Right.  You just don't hold God to those same standards.  Makes sense to me!

Since when is it CL's responsibility to hold a non-human, who hasn't shown up for over 2000 years, to the same standards that she holds actual, live people up to?

[Joods]

Good on you for cyber-bullying her enough to get her to agree with anything you say rather than waste her time trying to defend herself. You're a credit to something, I'm sure.

Why don't you read the entire thread before passing judgement Mister.  

So you and the handful of people that agree with you have exclusive rights to pass judgement? Because if you can't see that this is exactly what you have done to CL, there is something inherently wrong with you.