My views on objective morality

[Mystic]

Yes, he would disagree, but he would be incorrect. It's like if I disagreed that 2+2=4. I could disagree all day, but I'd still be wrong.

Yes, and a dog isn't the word "pontificate," cuz, you know, it's a dog.  But you haven't explained what morality is, nor, I think, can you.

Not being able to explain (not saying she can't) would not mean she doesn't have understanding of it and enough knowledge of what it is, and it's link with God.

[bennyboy]

. . .we believe rape is objectively immoral. That's what objectively immoral means.

/thread


CL, you have spent over 100 pages crowing that morality is objective, and double talking, and never giving any reasons, explaining any examples, or supporting your idea with any rationale or evidence.

[bennyboy]

Yes, and a dog isn't the word "pontificate," cuz, you know, it's a dog.  But you haven't explained what morality is, nor, I think, can you.

Not being able to explain (not saying she can't) would not mean she doesn't have understanding of it and enough knowledge of what it is, and it's link with God.

Not being a dog doesn't mean I can't have understanding of it and enough knowledge of what it is, and its link with the word "pontificate."

[bennyboy]

Well, you're asking a theist that lol. If God didn't exist I don't think anything would exist at all.

World's fastest proof of god:

P - If God didn't exist, nothing would exist.
P - The world exists.

C - God exists.

You forgot the pages of textwall to make the simplest and stupidest argument ever given look like it has some substance.

[LadyForCamus]

Am I the only one CL hasn't taken off ignore yet? [emoji53]

No, you're still all on ignore (well, 4 people are I think). But for now, I feel ok clicking on "show post" to address whatever new issues came up.

Oh, okay. CL, I have written a personal apology to you that I would very much like to deliver to you privately. I'm hoping you will consider taking me off ignore just long enough so that I could send it. But if not, I understand. Sorry this appeal is public.

[Catholic_Lady]

deleted due to misunderstanding a post.

[Catholic_Lady]

I don't know what we are compared to God. 

The difference between a human parent running out to grab their toddler son off the street, and God changing things that would naturally happen, is that for God to do it would require divine intervention. And like Tibs said, you start getting into a slippery slope. Why didn't God stop the toddler from getting hit by a car? Why didn't God stop my brother from getting severe food poisoning last week? Why didn't God prevent me from stubbing my toe? If God were to prevent every negative thing that were about to happen, we wouldn't have free will anymore.

Nonsense. Preventing someone from stubbing their toe inhabits a different moral dimension than allowing them to die by your own inaction.

If you think otherwise, your moral values are not my cup of tea anyways.

Furthermore, what is the point of praying if divine intervention is off-limits? (I'm assuming you pray).

Sorry, by allowing your god a heartlessness and deadly disinterest that you'd castigate if you saw it in a human, you're demonstrating that your morality is subjective -- it changes according the the point-of-view of the moral actor.

I think the point is we'd always find something to complain about. If stubbing a toe was the worst thing that could happen to a person, we'd be talking about how horrible it was and why would God allow us to feel that sort of pain. Assuming God is real, we should humble ourselves and trust that God knows this setup (not intervening, giving us free will, etc) is the best setup for us in the long run, and it's good consequences will far outweigh the bad ones.

Honestly, I think the more valid form of praying is to pray for mental state. Like, to pray for strength to get through a rough time, etc. Not necessarily to pray for something that you want to have happen, or for miracles. That's how my mom taught me to pray. I do believe miracles do occur but they are not common.

[Chas]

There is no evidence that supports that.

It's actually obvious to me in many ways.

I will present one way that I haven't. I know you guys get bored of same arguments so I will present another reflection.

It's obvious I cannot be causing the whole universe to exist. Neither can one atom.

By the same logic, it's obvious to me, an atom cannot be causing itself to exist. Or whatever the smallest unit (quark) or whatever, is not what causes itself to exist, by the same logic that I know it cannot cause the whole universe to exist.

Existence existing is showing and manifesting existence that is caused. What constantly maintains God's existence? Himself. The eternal being that always existed is obvious to me the absolute existence by which all things exist.

What keeps everything from ceasing to exist, what keeps the laws there.

Now you may say things constantly exist by nothing. But surely existence is a phenomenon...the movement of time, the motion, the laws, the existence..all this is displaying something powerful creating it.

It is obvious right now even at this moment, existence is phenomenon that requires something to cause it to constantly exist. Either itself does that or something else. I already showed why I don't believe things constantly maintain their own existence. It's the same reason I would not believe a penny could of create the world and be maintaining right now. It's irrational to believe that. God on the other hand obviously can keep himself existing and keep the world existing.

Things require something to exist?  Why?  You have not supported that assertion in any way.

You're just making shit up.

[Chas]

There is no evidence that supports that.

Ok. Never said there was.

You utterly missed the point.

You have a belief based on nothing.  Why?

[Catholic_Lady]

. . .we believe rape is objectively immoral. That's what objectively immoral means.

/thread


CL, you have spent over 100 pages crowing that morality is objective, and double talking, and never giving any reasons, explaining any examples, or supporting your idea with any rationale or evidence.

What exactly do you want to know?