I see it like this, you need an Xbox one to play Halo 5 but an Xbox one is not Halo 5, Halo 5 is what the Xbox does. Mind brain explained by a game.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
Mind is the brain?
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I see it like this, you need an Xbox one to play Halo 5 but an Xbox one is not Halo 5, Halo 5 is what the Xbox does. Mind brain explained by a game.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid. Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
A dualist is free to voluntarily get a labotomy and report back as means of demonstration, but they never do.
RE: Mind is the brain?
March 14, 2016 at 7:27 am
(This post was last modified: March 14, 2016 at 7:36 am by bennyboy.)
(March 13, 2016 at 7:46 pm)mh.brewer Wrote:(March 13, 2016 at 3:35 pm)bennyboy Wrote: You are stating as fact something which you assume. Tell me, by what criteria will you establish an actually sentient being from a philosophical zombie? You are then correlating not mind and brain, but words and brain. You are relying on sounds coming out of a physical system to stand in lieu of mind. Normally, this is perfectly sensible-- it's one of the more pragmatic assumptions that I've made, and makes communicating with people much more enjoyable. However, it's still an assumption and not actually an observable fact. Consider the case of a robot. If you damage its language processor, or it's cameras, or whatever, it also will lose at least part of its function. It also will describe things differently. But does this mean that a robot experiences qualia? I don't know the answer to that, but my hunch is that there's something unique to me that allows me to really experience what things are like, where a robot is just doing a bunch of processing 'n' stuff. Whether a robot of equal or greater complexity could be said to have a mind is another issue-- Bladerunner being a perfect example of the philosophical implications of that. Even if you look to the brain as the "source" of mind, or the system on which it supervenes or whatever, there are still layers of organization which are NOT unique to the brain, but happen to be contained within all brains. For example, the transmission of information, chemically or electrically or through the emission and absorption of photons, happens all over the place. It could be that a primitive "atomic qualia" is the most elemental unit of mind, and that ANY system of coordinated data flow will have some spark of mind. OR it could be that something specific about the organic process of the brain-- the chemicals involved, the way the systems are intertwined, is absolutely necessary, and no other system would be sufficient to actually experience qualia rather than just seeming to. So even in a physical monist position, saying mind IS brain, or IS brain function, might be too simple a view to be useful. Then, bring in dualism or idealist viewpoints, and consider how many assumptions were required to start the process, and I don't think anyone should be very confident in their views about mind and brain.
Benny, since this a philosophy thread and your position is philosophical I think I'll back out of the discussion. You and I will disagree. I'll stick to my real life, medical, position.
Thanks.
Being told you're delusional does not necessarily mean you're mental.
(March 12, 2016 at 3:15 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: This was posted on another forum: There is no "paradigm". There is no mystery. You are literally your brain in motion. No different than a car with fuel will run and a car without fuel will not run. Human simply are stuck on old claims and gap fill out of a sense of false comfort and or fear. You smash up your computer into unusable parts it will not function as if it were int tact with no damage. YOU are your brain in motion. No, it isn't sexy, but it is reality. (March 14, 2016 at 8:32 am)Brian37 Wrote: There is no "paradigm". There is no mystery.That's a lot of assertions, but you will have a hard time supporting them without begging the question, I think. But let's find out-- can you please support your many factual statements with logic, evidence, or ideally proof? RE: Mind is the brain?
March 14, 2016 at 9:22 am
(This post was last modified: March 14, 2016 at 9:23 am by little_monkey.)
(March 13, 2016 at 9:08 pm)bennyboy Wrote:(March 13, 2016 at 6:02 pm)little_monkey Wrote: Hi benny, long time no see. I'm JP (click on my blog below) from atheist.com where we had many discussions on the "immaterial". Don't know if your position has changed since then, probably not from the nature of this post... LOL. Some clarifications: (1) There are things that are visible to the scientists carrying those experiment: for instance smiling since you brought it up. There are things taking place on your face when you smile in terms of muscles being pulled, and all sorts of chemical reactions taking place, etc - all of these can be observed and measured. (2) Scientists observe thousands of patients, so if you claim this smiling is a fake, for instance, then you need to believe in a conspiracy theory that all those thousands of patients are faking it and why they would want to fake a smile??? So, we can definitely map the brain in terms of the activities we all do, whether it's about smiling or anything that involves thinking, feeling, mobility, etc. Now if you can show scientifically you can do some of these activities without the brain , that is, the brain being not involved in any possible way , then you have something to argue from. But so far, the science is not on your side. RE: Mind is the brain?
March 14, 2016 at 10:37 am
(This post was last modified: March 14, 2016 at 10:42 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(March 14, 2016 at 7:27 am)bennyboy Wrote: I don't know the answer to that, but my hunch is that there's something unique to me that allows me to really experience what things are like, This, right here, is it. This is your full and total objection to a material monist explanation of mind. You've simply surrounded it with rationalizations. -Your- mind may be unique to you, even though mind is obviously not. I'm sure there are plenty of things unique to you, if it's any consolation.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
(March 14, 2016 at 10:37 am)Rhythm Wrote:(March 14, 2016 at 7:27 am)bennyboy Wrote: I don't know the answer to that, but my hunch is that there's something unique to me that allows me to really experience what things are like, Wait a minute, I'm not arguing against materialism with the thing you quoted. It is whether the unique function, properties or whatever that allow mind are of the brain specifically, or of certain kinds of processing more generally. |
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