Hope for America!!

[KevinM1]

Yeah, Fahrenheit 451 was a great book. I really liked Brave New World, too. Still need to get around to reading 1984 and Animal Farm.

[LadyForCamus]

I very much enjoyed Fahrenheit 451. Animal Farm not so much. I couldn't get past the talking animals, haha.

[robvalue]

That's horrific Kevin, I'm so sorry too What an evil, disgusting man.

[Drich]

Clearly you do not understand the meaning of the word 'train.'

To train is to discipline along the lines of a Tibetan monk, not a free range chicken.

Drich does not understand what fans of all religions do in misuse of language.

Nope sorry, but I really don't like the western romance of Buddhism, it is tribal too, it also has it's competing sub sects as well. Training people to cling to a club isn't like training for a job or sport, it is training to protect the sect regardless of the intent of what the member sees their goodness as. 

We feel sorry for Tibet's Buddhists because they are oppressed, that part is true, but as a time frame issue. The totality of the umbrella label "Buddhist" when you look at all the variety of different sects from Asia, to China to Japan, in the entire history of the religion, it too still suffers divisions and had its conflicts.

"Training" is a bad idea in the context of all religions, it teaches conformity, that from an evolutionary standpoint does create group survival, but it still is a lousy way of finding diplomacy with other sects of the same label or diplomacy with those of completely different labels.

Buddhism has no special powers either, it is also simply another religion created in our species history. Asia, China and Japan, also have prisons too so not even Buddhism will magically only make the follower only do good. No, you cant force ANY religion off the face of this planet, but my fellow humans need to make a better effort of being unafraid to consider the real source of our species behaviors, good or bad are really coming from.

You can also "train" to be a Navy Seal, and call that a "discipline" too. But just like religion, that "training" only teaches you to replicate, but in a very messy reality, what it far to often ignores, are when conditions lead to harm to innocent people. It is why in both religion and war, it can cause an otherwise reasonable human to look the other way when it's club is hurting others. 

My x wife was Japanese, and my last day in Japan, they took me to a museum of their history of conflict and violence, and they are full of Buddhists too, and they've had a history of conflict with China and Asia, and from their perspective the museum paints them as the victims, which isn't entirely false, but that is what humans do in groups, when attacked, we group, and we all do that. So it isn't as simple as calling any religion a "peaceful" religion. Japan at the time of WW2 was so deeply hypernationalistic they were not victims when they attacked Pearl Harbor. But at the same time Asia and China certainly prior did some really shitty things to the Japanese and both are full of Buddhists.

It was small, only 2 stories or 3, but it went through their history of conflict from the middle ages, to WW1 and WW2 and tons of depictions of horrible cruelty and violence, it reminded me of the Holocaust Museum, not because they were targets of genocide in the same context, but it reminded me of what my fellow humans are capable of as far as being cruel to each other. 

It is never a good idea to romance any religion and idolize it an pretend it is perfect.

what makes you think that I was not fully aware of the conflict and controversy Tibetan monks endured when I made the comparison?

It is because of the hardships and the frowned upon nature of their beliefs by the Chinese that had me make the comparison to begin with. It is through all that adversity that their training takes place and through it all they still are able to produce a monk consistent with their core beliefs.

[Drich]

For the record, I don't necessarily think D-bag is much of a danger to anyone but himself, at least not as much as he tries to present. I think it's more that he gets his rocks off by playing the tough guy and watching the rest of us chase the little red dot.

Don't worry though, Drich, I still think you're a cunt.

1/2 a kudo to you, While i do like making the butt clowns chase after the red dot I am still not willing to eliminate a good old fashion spanking from my tools of child discipline.

It's not my goto one size fits all answer to everything, the butt clowns self righteousness will not allow themselves to hear that, so I just play to their vanity, and let them hang themselves on the extreme left fringe.

[Drich]

For the record, I don't necessarily think D-bag is much of a danger to anyone but himself, at least not as much as he tries to present. I think it's more that he gets his rocks off by playing the tough guy and watching the rest of us chase the little red dot.

Don't worry though, Drich, I still think you're a cunt.

We aren't chasing any red dot, I am sure he might think that, but he's the one with the magical cosmic dog trainer claim, not us. Train the kids and the outsiders to submit and be good puppies.

I'm not the one who made the observation, one of you did! You just don't like the idea of being manipulated 'trained' without being whipped. Which gives some of you (the smarter ones) some idea how infrequently I actually have to whip a child.

[Drich]

Again opertive word here is TRAIN. You were not trained you were beaten. For all the time you spent in the church (and where beaten) it doesn't seem to have help you understand the difference between training and a good olde' fashion beat down and what training is.

So then how can you honestly compare the two? or is that what your empathy play is supposed to do here? You publish a story that invokes an emotional response and I am change a core value because "i feel your pain." Again how is that an HONEST look at what is being said, or is it not supposed to be?

And, perhaps you took offense at my taking offense, but you dodged the point entirely.  I know that my experience is on the extreme side of violent right-wing fundie.  I'm objecting to your use of Proverbs 22:6.  The fact that the vast majority of atheists here were raised Christian (and most in loving families and established churches of all denominations) disproves the verse.  It's not accurate.  We were "started off in the way we should go" (NIV) or "trained up" (KJV) and it didn't take.  The brainwashing failed for many and varied reasons.
We are living proof that "he will not depart from it" is false.  Sure, you can do the "no true scotsman" crap and say that we weren't properly trained, or proper christians, or never were believers, but that's also a lie.

Again, you don't seem to understand the difference between trainning and a beating.

You train a person right they will be who you train them to be 9 times out of 10. If you in the name of training beat someone then 9 times out of 10 they turn out like what you are describing.

[Drich]

Not what I said.. No where in what I said did I say I'll always know how they will turn out. The fact that I said "if they turn out Gay..." Speaks to this. What I'm saying is I know who they will be meaning I know the core values in which I trained them with will only yield one type of person no matter the particulars of the situation.

Here's what you wrote:

When you train a child to be a man or woman. You will always know how they will turn out. To you there are only variables when you look at a child's future. When I look I too see variables, but I also know who he will be in those variables/situations.

I have emphasized where you write exactly what you deny writing.

How many children have you raised?

keep reading sport.

I separated the term "turn out" to mean who the kid is/what his core values are, verses what he will be

[Drich]

More than 1

Do you take baseball bats to them? Perhaps you hold their heads under water?

If we are com-BAT training or learning to swim under water.

[Whateverist]

Spanking is an equally horrible idea where dog training is involved. The bond/relationship is core to any training you want to do. Beating a dog undermines the bond. Of course those who interpret sniveling and groveling as love and respect will go on beating their dogs and kids.