Pornography - are you for or against it and why?

[tackattack]

@RevJ- because it's a discussion, feel free to bow out

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4-Once again I'm not saying make it illegal. I agree people are "simulating an activity people desire to expand their business". My opinion was this activity increases the demand for it, therefore increases the peoples desire for more of it. Do you cater to those "hardwired disgusting instincts" or do you separate yourself from them? You are making the case that there's a Hannibal, Jeffry Dahmer and Hitler inside each one of us. I don't think I'm hard wired to rape someone. That doesn't mean that It's not somewhere deep in my subconscious id, but I would never do that.

Bread lines show that the absence of a thing that is desired (ie: food) causes such a demand for it that people will wait in line for many hours, and not necessarily without violence and agitation. Take the bread away completely... and you have rioting on a horrifying scale from people's demand for it. Now I agree that porn isn't as vital to us as food... but an absence of it when it was there before would increase the demand for it like nothing else.

There is a hannibal and hitler inside each of us... depends on how far we are pushed and in which direction. My personality (me, I, Aerzia, etc) couldn't rape someone consciously (today), because i've been pushed to find this disgusting and a horrible thing to do to someone. However, I am occasionally attracted to 'rape porn' (more often forms of BDSM) because I want to be on the receiving end at times, and especially after having sex with people that are too gentle for me. I tell one to bite harder and they do so marginally -_-

6- If you consciously choose to do it for the reward then yes it's selfish, if it's a subconscious process and consciously you're just "being nice" without any thought of return then it's selfless. Both selfish and selfless imply conscious consent to act.

I typically am not thinking about the inner workings of my mind when I gleefully give someone something I don't recognize consciousness when it comes to the things I do: I wouldn't do the if I didn't have something to gain by it. I don't have to think about something to gain happiness by doing it

8- I don't fantasize about raping or beating up women or molesting children. And even if everyone did, which they don't, I don't think a populace with a more active imagination is a worthwhile tradeoff for one child getting victimized because people can't control their urges.

With a more active imagination... your populace becomes the technological wonder of the world. That is well worth a few children being victimized because people can't control their urges (especially when children are victimized anyway by people who can and decide to do so).

I'm not for prohibition of porn, I'm talking about at least attempting to cover up the fact you're condoning illegal actions by a little regulation. I just don't think an industry that caters to illegal fantasies, intends them to "feel real" for the viewer, and allow it to go completely unchecked and accessed by anyone of any age is worthy of publicly(or privately) supporting. I know this won't make any of it go away. I think condoning this activity leads to a more depraved society, not a more civilized one. Regulation will prevent people from rationalizing away their actions and put the accountability squarely on the person and easier to spot for prosecution.

I've never understood 'rationalizing away their actions'... precisely what is meant by this?

Depravity has nothing to do with a civilized society. You can have a civilized society of people that only want to do a couple of things... and you can have a civilized society of people that have every kink in and out of the book.

I don't care that an action is illegal, tacky... legality almost never enters into whether I will act or not. I simply do not see a problem with porn. You tell me that it affects people's brains, and I don't deny it. I think it is false that people go from the point of it affecting their brains to them either losing control or willfully acting on a thing they found in a fantasy. I've yet to see someone do something I consider 'wrong' as a result of harry potter, a fantasy that contains a good few murders and lots of violence. Same for any book that isn't titled 'steal this book' But that isn't a fantasy, it is a guide and a way to understand the processes.

On the side note, they have a rating system for games, at least it's in place. It may not be enforced and is easy to circumvent, but it's at least present and actionable. That's why I support grossly violent and inappropriate video games, but not porn; At least the game industry makes it seem they care on the surface.

Wait... now I am confused. You wish to deny adults rape porn... but are fine with video games being violent and 'inappropriate', so long as they have a rating that means only adults can play them???? 0.o

And I dislike the rating system. I wouldn't mind if it was a suggested/recommended thing... but it's a legal thing. It annoyed me greatly to have to ask my mother to buy a game for me because I was a year or 2 beneath 17. I don't have to as her permission for me to buy candy (a much more damaging creature), but I have to waste her time and mine in pulling her into my favorite section of a store to buy something for me.

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4-Whatever your sexual actions are with another consenting partner are your business. You're ignoring the fact that women, men and children are actually raped and it's recorded and some people want to do that to other people. Your breadline doesn't work because the line right next to it is for a free buffet. There's tons of porn out there other than 5-6 categories of faked illegal porn. No one will starve their sexual appetites by shutting these categories down. I stopped porn all together and I don't crave it in the slightest, because I have a healthy sexual output, my wife. There will be an increase in urge momentarily but the people who have an urge to do illegal shit, will eventually lose that battle with themselves. I'd rather them be called out of the closet, then wait for the next girlscout knocking on their door.
8-I can't get over my parenting instincts on this one, nothing is worth one child extra being abused, raped or
exploited. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm not a end justifies the means person.
9-"I don't care that an action is illegal, tacky... legality almost never enters into whether I will act or not." I can say that I'm honestly on the exact other end of the spectrum on this one. Maybe it's an age or lifestyle or cultural difference put to me it's plain as day. I think very carefully about what I say and how it will affect the others around me before I say it. The same for my actions. I appreciate orderliness in society and while morality is subjective for most, legality is only subjective by your community, and I'm thankful for that.
10- Yes, I'm fine with the video game industry because at least it makes some easily circumventable legal standard. At least they acknowledge that it's harmful to individuals.

[reverendjeremiah]

I was not bowing out. I was just questioning relevance of discussing something you said you would not make illegal anyways. Besides, why would I bow out of my own poll? By all means, have fun and discuss the topic as much as you want...besides, we almost see eye to eye on this topic, so I have no beef with you. I merely wondered if you had some studies. If its your opinion, then thats fine with me.

[tackattack]

I wouldn't ban legal porn. I don't think faked illegal acts should be included in legal porn, therefore I vote to to supporting pornography as it stands today.
Perhaps if I took a different tack. Let's leave victims out of it entirely, and just focus on illegal child porn.
What is the purpose of making it illegal? The act of abuse has already been done, so it must be because society doesn't want people to see the act of a child being exploited.
What is purpose of the legal porn industry dressing up girls and making them look underage? To make people see the act of a child being exploited.

It's legal because they're actually of age and consenting, but it completely ignores the intent of the law the porn industry or the legal system should do something about it, IMO.

[reverendjeremiah]

What is purpose of the legal porn industry dressing up girls and making them look underage? To make people see the act of a child being exploited.

I dont know. Maybe some guy likes to wear a diaper. Maybe he didnt have a moma when he was growing up? I would not say that he wants to exploit little children per se, but then again Im not a sexual/psychological expert.

It's legal because they're actually of age and consenting, but it completely ignores the intent of the law the porn industry or the legal system should do something about it, IMO.

Well, I try to stay away from the stuff I dont like. But asking an industry to regulate itself is like asking a corporation not to be greedy... it goes against their prime directive.

[Violet]

4-Whatever your sexual actions are with another consenting partner are your business. You're ignoring the fact that women, men and children are actually raped and it's recorded and some people want to do that to other people.

In actuality actual rape is actually punished. Illegal porn and actions are persecuted.

Your breadline doesn't work because the line right next to it is for a free buffet. There's tons of porn out there other than 5-6 categories of faked illegal porn. No one will starve their sexual appetites by shutting these categories down. I stopped porn all together and I don't crave it in the slightest, because I have a healthy sexual output, my wife. There will be an increase in urge momentarily but the people who have an urge to do illegal shit, will eventually lose that battle with themselves. I'd rather them be called out of the closet, then wait for the next girlscout knocking on their door.

You do realize I was not comparing bread lines with lines for porn, but noting what desire for a thing does when a thing is absent/relatively so? The drug trade operates well enough and it is illegal, as would banning these varieties of porn. I also wasn't noting banning only some, but all porn.

Say you didn't have a wife. Suddenly there is an absence of healthy sexual output. And suddenly you are in a lot of people's positions. And that could cause danger to girl-scouts knocking on doors, unlike leaving porn alone. I'm against the entire girl-scout idea myself, so I would rather it wasn't encouraged one bit and was stamped out by intelligent parents.

8-I can't get over my parenting instincts on this one, nothing is worth one child extra being abused, raped or exploited. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm not a end justifies the means person.

If you could have a million dollars by pushing a button and killing a random stranger: what would you spend your money on?

But really, I don't inflate the value of people to that extent, so /agree.

9-"I don't care that an action is illegal, tacky... legality almost never enters into whether I will act or not." I can say that I'm honestly on the exact other end of the spectrum on this one. Maybe it's an age or lifestyle or cultural difference put to me it's plain as day. I think very carefully about what I say and how it will affect the others around me before I say it. The same for my actions. I appreciate orderliness in society and while morality is subjective for most, legality is only subjective by your community, and I'm thankful for that.

I *do* care what people will think. I don't care what an authority figure thinks until it comes to the point where it might greatly interfere with my life. Then I don't fail to act: I modify my act in response to the presence of the people with guns.

Hence, while I am a very careful person in a lot of ways, my concern with laws is not that they are there but what they advertise doing to me in response for breaking them.

10- Yes, I'm fine with the video game industry because at least it makes some easily circumventable legal standard. At least they acknowledge that it's harmful to individuals.

Even though it is as harmful to an individual as attending church, reading a fantasy, and actually none of these things damage people in a measurable way and infact video games increase hand-eye coordination, adaptability, and provide one with the ability to think complex things through more quickly?

Not to mention the fantastic learning tool that may be facilitated in the use of such. And all of the vandalism, murder, and whatnot it prevents by taking on those desires in their place

[tackattack]

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What is purpose of the legal porn industry dressing up girls and making them look underage? To make people see the act of a child being exploited.

I dont know. Maybe some guy likes to wear a diaper. Maybe he didnt have a moma when he was growing up? I would not say that he wants to exploit little children per se, but then again Im not a sexual/psychological expert.

It's legal because they're actually of age and consenting, but it completely ignores the intent of the law the porn industry or the legal system should do something about it, IMO.

Well, I try to stay away from the stuff I dont like. But asking an industry to regulate itself is like asking a corporation not to be greedy... it goes against their prime directive.

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That's a red herring, I tried to keep this focused to one example so it would be simpler. The only purpose I can see for dressing up girls to be underage and then give them scripted lines intending for them to be younger than legal age would be to make people see an underage girl having sex/ being exploited. That's against the intent of the law, and IMO, should be just as illegal.
I do agree however that asking an industry based on greed to not be greedy is a fruitless effort.

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4-Whatever your sexual actions are with another consenting partner are your business. You're ignoring the fact that women, men and children are actually raped and it's recorded and some people want to do that to other people.

In actuality actual rape is actually punished. Illegal porn and actions are persecuted.

Your breadline doesn't work because the line right next to it is for a free buffet. There's tons of porn out there other than 5-6 categories of faked illegal porn. No one will starve their sexual appetites by shutting these categories down. I stopped porn all together and I don't crave it in the slightest, because I have a healthy sexual output, my wife. There will be an increase in urge momentarily but the people who have an urge to do illegal shit, will eventually lose that battle with themselves. I'd rather them be called out of the closet, then wait for the next girlscout knocking on their door.

You do realize I was not comparing bread lines with lines for porn, but noting what desire for a thing does when a thing is absent/relatively so? The drug trade operates well enough and it is illegal, as would banning these varieties of porn. I also wasn't noting banning only some, but all porn.

Say you didn't have a wife. Suddenly there is an absence of healthy sexual output. And suddenly you are in a lot of people's positions. And that could cause danger to girl-scouts knocking on doors, unlike leaving porn alone. I'm against the entire girl-scout idea myself, so I would rather it wasn't encouraged one bit and was stamped out by intelligent parents.

8-I can't get over my parenting instincts on this one, nothing is worth one child extra being abused, raped or exploited. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm not a end justifies the means person.

If you could have a million dollars by pushing a button and killing a random stranger: what would you spend your money on?

But really, I don't inflate the value of people to that extent, so /agree.

9-"I don't care that an action is illegal, tacky... legality almost never enters into whether I will act or not." I can say that I'm honestly on the exact other end of the spectrum on this one. Maybe it's an age or lifestyle or cultural difference put to me it's plain as day. I think very carefully about what I say and how it will affect the others around me before I say it. The same for my actions. I appreciate orderliness in society and while morality is subjective for most, legality is only subjective by your community, and I'm thankful for that.

I *do* care what people will think. I don't care what an authority figure thinks until it comes to the point where it might greatly interfere with my life. Then I don't fail to act: I modify my act in response to the presence of the people with guns.

Hence, while I am a very careful person in a lot of ways, my concern with laws is not that they are there but what they advertise doing to me in response for breaking them.

10- Yes, I'm fine with the video game industry because at least it makes some easily circumventable legal standard. At least they acknowledge that it's harmful to individuals.

Even though it is as harmful to an individual as attending church, reading a fantasy, and actually none of these things damage people in a measurable way and infact video games increase hand-eye coordination, adaptability, and provide one with the ability to think complex things through more quickly?

Not to mention the fantastic learning tool that may be facilitated in the use of such. And all of the vandalism, murder, and whatnot it prevents by taking on those desires in their place

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4- I agree that in actuality actual rape is actually punished. Illegal porn and actions are persecuted. I'd like to see faked illegal activities persecuted as well, but unfortunately for me, they're legal.
8- I thought that was a good moview as well. Just goes to show that people expect others to be selfish. I couldn't bring myself to ever push that button myself though.
9-Maybe that's the rebellion of youth and I've grown out of it. Laws are there for the control and betterment of society idealistically. They're far from perfect but ignoring them instead of changing the ones that are broken for better ones, you're snubbing your nose at all the people who've tried to make this society better. I have no problem with authority or lawfulness. Your personality is also far different from mine and you're less lawfull more chaotic in D&D standards.
10- I agree video games have a lot of positive uses for memory, hand-eye coordination, etc. Beating up a hooker in the street after stealing a car and robbing and ficking her gains teh individual nothing.

[Violet]

8- I thought that was a good moview as well. Just goes to show that people expect others to be selfish. I couldn't bring myself to ever push that button myself though.

I'd push it in an instant... and if it worked repeatedly I'd push it at least 50 more times. Might do 100. I'd stop by then though, as there is such a thing as having too much money for one's standing...

And emphasis on 'stranger'. If instead a person that I know could die... I would have to weigh the value of a million dollars against them. Most people I know would fail that comparison by far. Those who made it fail by the fifth million. The one exception to this fails at 75 million.

So hopefully everyone here realizes how little it takes for me to sell them out

9-Maybe that's the rebellion of youth and I've grown out of it. Laws are there for the control and betterment of society idealistically. They're far from perfect but ignoring them instead of changing the ones that are broken for better ones, you're snubbing your nose at all the people who've tried to make this society better. I have no problem with authority or lawfulness. Your personality is also far different from mine and you're less lawfull more chaotic in D&D standards.

I am infact chaotic good ^_^ Occasionally I slide more down towards neutral (especially when it comes to war and politics). I view laws as an unnecessary loophole through which I am expected to jump when I could have already had a job done. Hence: i don't jump through them unless the it is strongly enough to my benefit (in the vein of 'bonus multiplier!').

10- I agree video games have a lot of positive uses for memory, hand-eye coordination, etc. Beating up a hooker in the street after stealing a car and robbing and ficking her gains teh individual nothing.

If they enjoyed it... then it gained them some small satisfaction? Unfortunately, the best I can note of porn is that it *might* help *some* people better use their imaginations. Or it can also give creative ideas to a person. But those aren't really all that huge imo :X

[Ashendant]

I am infact chaotic good ^_^ Occasionally I slide more down towards neutral (especially when it comes to war and politics). I view laws as an unnecessary loophole through which I am expected to jump when I could have already had a job done. Hence: i don't jump through them unless the it is strongly enough to my benefit (in the vein of 'bonus multiplier!').

You go to a heaven where you smoke cigarettes made of rolled-up poorly worded legal documents

[Violet]

I am infact chaotic good ^_^ Occasionally I slide more down towards neutral (especially when it comes to war and politics). I view laws as an unnecessary loophole through which I am expected to jump when I could have already had a job done. Hence: i don't jump through them unless the it is strongly enough to my benefit (in the vein of 'bonus multiplier!').

You go to a heaven where you smoke cigarettes made of rolled-up poorly worded legal documents

Oh goodness, I hope not. I don't smoke :X

[reverendjeremiah]

That's a red herring, I tried to keep this focused to one example so it would be simpler. The only purpose I can see for dressing up girls to be underage and then give them scripted lines intending for them to be younger than legal age would be to make people see an underage girl having sex/ being exploited. That's against the intent of the law, and IMO, should be just as illegal.
I do agree however that asking an industry based on greed to not be greedy is a fruitless effort.

Fine, you want to call the last post a red herring. Then lets do it this way. You are absolutely correct. A porn producers SPECIFICALLY makes a video dressing up LEGAL girls and making them act underage for THE SOLE PURPOSE of appealing to the people who want to have underage sex. There, is that blunt enough for you?

Now, since everything in that is bluntly focused for making LEGAL people look underage, you cant call it a red herring.

Now..what are you going to do? Everything is legal wether you like it or not, wether I like it or not. You want to legislate some thought crimes now? It is now illegal to even THINK of having sex with an underage kid. So much for, you know, having some evidence of an actual crime. Just a police officer thinking that you have thought about having sex with an underage girl is a jailable offense. Should we keep little kids off of videos from here on out? Who says it has to be a sex vid that pedo's like? Wouldnt a pedo also get off on watching all those kids on the Disney channel as well?

Honestly, answer that question for me. Where does this start to become thought crime, and no longer about actual crimes? also, if pedo's are attracted to kiddie stuff that ISNT porn, shouldnt we shut them down as well? Because its obviously getting the pedo aroused as well. If we make LEGAL rape porn illegal, then shouldnt we remove all mention of it in movies, the news, and other media? Or is PORN the only outlet that deserves special considerations?

I am infact chaotic good ^_^ Occasionally I slide more down towards neutral (especially when it comes to war and politics). I view laws as an unnecessary loophole through which I am expected to jump when I could have already had a job done. Hence: i don't jump through them unless the it is strongly enough to my benefit (in the vein of 'bonus multiplier!').

Im Neutral Good ^_^ I stay solidly on this alignment. Benevolence is what really matters socially to me. If a law is not benevolent, it deserves to be ignored. If a law is benevolent, then it should be followed.