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RE: Why do Christians become Christians?
May 6, 2016 at 10:01 am
(This post was last modified: May 6, 2016 at 10:01 am by TubbyTubby.)
On a christian forum I suggested that if they were born into a predominantly Islam society then they would have taken that religion instead of christianity. They point blank refused and pointed out the scattering of Xtians living in said countries and that they would have still been Christians. Even after asking if they were born to devout Muslim parents they still insist they would have found the 'one true religion'.
Fucking mind boggling really that they can't accept their faith is a direct result of their locale and upbringing.
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RE: Why do Christians become Christians?
May 6, 2016 at 10:11 am
Many of you tried to explain why we are wired to believe in the supernatural through biological and social evolution. Do any of you have the scientific studies that back up those theories? As you are so quick to point out, these theories need to stand up to the scientific method before they can be seriously considered. They must be falsifiable. Do they, are they?
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RE: Why do Christians become Christians?
May 6, 2016 at 10:13 am
(May 6, 2016 at 2:22 am)robvalue Wrote: Even those that aren't indoctrinated often live in societies saturated with Christian mythology. Even in England, where Christianity is dying a slow death, there's fucking churches everywhere. Jesus this, Jesus that. There's always Christians around saying stuff about Jesus and Christianity. It's on TV, it's on the radio.
So if someone does end up mentally caving, it's not surprising that they generally happen to adopt the religion they've been exposed to all that time. In later life, it seems to mostly happen when someone has a very difficult experience and maybe this erodes their mental defences. They feel vulnerable and lost, and (maybe with the "help" of some devouts) they find some comfort and hope in religion. Some theists are like vultures and will exploit people's weaknesses, we see it all the time on this forum.
It's just a religion, though. Religious people seem to forget that there are loads of them, and that's only counting the ones around at the moment.
You think anyone would ever "find Jesus" if they didn't have people going on about him all the time? If they never even heard of him? Fucking no chance. Zero. They'd just turn to some other religion, if that's what they needed. Jesus and Yahweh, like all gods, exist only as long as people keep spreading myths about them.
Social pressure can be a bitch in highly religious areas, too. Some people may play along just for a quiet life.
How do you explain the growth of Christianity in China? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...years.html
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RE: Why do Christians become Christians?
May 6, 2016 at 10:18 am
(May 6, 2016 at 10:11 am)SteveII Wrote: Many of you tried to explain why we are wired to believe in the supernatural through biological and social evolution. Do any of you have the scientific studies that back up those theories? As you are so quick to point out, these theories need to stand up to the scientific method before they can be seriously considered. They must be falsifiable. Do they, are they?
Humans people i.e. you and me are not hardwired to believe in god(s). You are taught to believe in a god you "learn" about god(s) from someone.
The thing is imagination as great of a thing it is it is also dangerous because of the idea of god(s). A child learning about god(s) is more gullible
and has less common sense than a child who is growing up with the belief in god(s) enough said.
Atheism is a non-prophet organization join today.
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RE: Why do Christians become Christians?
May 6, 2016 at 10:19 am
(May 5, 2016 at 6:12 pm)abaris Wrote: We're not wired to believe. We're wired to seek security in belonging to a group, which is hardly surprising, given that we're a social species.
I'm probably talking to a brick wall here, but it would do some of you some good to look up newer research on other socials species.
The only part of your rather lenghty post I'm willing to accept, is the security part and the one about not being comfortable with not having all the answers. Classic god of the gaps. Classic cavemen, looking up at the sun and the moon, not being able to explain their nature and calling them gods. Yes, people want security, they want to feel cherrished and they want to be taken by the hand. But that's about all.
So, you are saying that you know why people become Christians and its not for the reasons they think. Do you really think that is a defensible position?
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RE: Why do Christians become Christians?
May 6, 2016 at 10:30 am
(May 6, 2016 at 10:19 am)SteveII Wrote: So, you are saying that you know why people become Christians and its not for the reasons they think. Do you really think that is a defensible position?
Yes. First, because there aren't only christians but an abundance of religions with christians making up a minority of the world's overall population. Not to speak of the thousands of different christian groups, sects and schisms. And secondly, as I have pointed out when saying I'm probably talking to a brick wall, do your homework on other social species and how they compare to us when it comes to seeking the security of a group.
You argued from the god of the gaps position. That's fine, you're not comfortable with simply not knowing all the inner workings of the universe. So your answer is to insert god. Your god, to be precise. Which isn't even the only christian god, going by all the different interpretations. But then you have to be comfortable being compared to the classic caveman. Not being able to explain anything in nature, therefore turning the unexplained into gods. It's the same position, only a few thousands of years later. Maybe from a higher level of knowledge, since I don't know what you even accept as scientific answers. If you're a young earth creationist, I'm done in any case, since it seems futile to debate that kind of position.
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RE: Why do Christians become Christians?
May 6, 2016 at 10:35 am
(May 6, 2016 at 10:01 am)TubbyTubby Wrote: On a christian forum I suggested that if they were born into a predominantly Islam society then they would have taken that religion instead of christianity. They point blank refused and pointed out the scattering of Xtians living in said countries and that they would have still been Christians. Even after asking if they were born to devout Muslim parents they still insist they would have found the 'one true religion'.
Fucking mind boggling really that they can't accept their faith is a direct result of their locale and upbringing.
You are probably right--a bias will form. Is your assertion that faith is a direct result of locale and upbringing? That does not make sense if at least 15% of Christians (in the US) become so as adults nor does it explain the tremendous growth of Christianity in Africa and China (which would presumably be a much higher rate of adult conversion.
It seem like more of an opinion rather than a fact that Christians should just "accept".
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RE: Why do Christians become Christians?
May 6, 2016 at 10:44 am
SteveII Wrote:Quote:I've seen numbers in the US indicate that ~85% become Christians between 4 and 14. If we use that number for the rest of the world, that would mean approximately 325,500,000 (out of 2.17 billion) became Christians later than 15 years old.
That's 15% of 2.17 billion. Not very impressive, in my opinion.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Why do Christians become Christians?
May 6, 2016 at 10:46 am
SteveII Wrote:Many of you tried to explain why we are wired to believe in the supernatural through biological and social evolution. Do any of you have the scientific studies that back up those theories? As you are so quick to point out, these theories need to stand up to the scientific method before they can be seriously considered. They must be falsifiable. Do they, are they?
Suddenly you care about falsifiability?
Not that you don't have a point, but coming from you, it's rich.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Why do Christians become Christians?
May 6, 2016 at 10:51 am
SteveII Wrote:Quote:How do you explain the growth of Christianity in China? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...years.html
If current trends continue, the USA will be 40% 'Nones' in 15 years, over 85% in 30. Do you believe this will happen? If not, why not?
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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