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RE: Does God exist?
June 1, 2016 at 6:39 pm
(June 1, 2016 at 6:03 pm)Light of Truth Wrote: Do you deny objective moral truths?
Absolutely. They do not exist.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Does God exist?
June 1, 2016 at 7:41 pm
(This post was last modified: June 1, 2016 at 8:06 pm by Simon Moon.)
(June 1, 2016 at 5:09 pm)Light of Truth Wrote: If someone is an atheist, then they can have no basis for objective morality. I'm not saying that they cannot be "moral," but I am saying that they can have no objective basis for morality. With this being said, so many people say that if God were to exist, then He would be evil. By saying that He is evil, you would be making an objective judgment of Him, showing your belief in such things as objective morals, which cannot have a basis in atheism.
If objective morals exist, so does God.
Just food for thought. 
This is not true.
There are several thoughts on secular morality that have objective standards as their basis.
Consequentialism is one of them.
I am an atheist, yet I believe in secular objective standards for morality. I may be one of the few, but I am in good company with Matt Dilahunty, Ronald Lindsay Ph.D., Taner Edis Ph.D., and Sam Harris to name a few.
I will lay it out later today when I have more time.
You'd believe if you just opened your heart" is a terrible argument for religion. It's basically saying, "If you bias yourself enough, you can convince yourself that this is true." If religion were true, people wouldn't need faith to believe it -- it would be supported by good evidence.
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RE: Does God exist?
June 1, 2016 at 8:36 pm
How does consequentialism relate to objective morality? I can't see the connection.
In fact, the definition of consequentialism includes the idea that the morality is *judged* according to the consequences. This doesn't mean that everyone judges things in the same way!
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RE: Does God exist?
June 1, 2016 at 8:41 pm
(June 1, 2016 at 7:41 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: There are several thoughts on secular morality that have objective standards as their basis.
I will lay it out later today when I have more time.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Does God exist?
June 1, 2016 at 9:09 pm
I say that cheeseburgers can only come from Ceiling Cat. I'm not saying that aceilingcatists can't enjoy a nice cheeseburger, but by acknowledging that they exist they must also be acknowledging the existence of their creator, Ceiling Cat.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Does God exist?
June 1, 2016 at 9:50 pm
Quoting things from the Old Testament that show you misread or misunderstand what is found there has no bearing on the God of the Bible claiming to be all Good and Just.
Without God as an anchor for objective morality there can only be subjective morality. That is just how it is. Most people (excluding sociopaths and whatnot) know that objective morals exist. If someone agrees that there are no objective moral values, then I would say it isn't really possible to live consistently with that view, which leads those people to believe in illusory morals and values to make life bearable.
I have no intentions of belittling any atheists. I am merely showing that there can be no BASIS for objective morals without God.
"God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8).
"Always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you" (1 Peter 3:15).
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RE: Does God exist?
June 1, 2016 at 9:53 pm
I would actually say that many theists are moral DESPITE their deity and the teachings of their books.
Let me ask, if your deity told you to sacrifice your child, would you?
Playing Cluedo with my mum while I was at Uni:
"You did WHAT? With WHO? WHERE???"
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RE: Does God exist?
June 1, 2016 at 9:55 pm
Of course they would. Their god commanded it and it would not be the first time.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: Does God exist?
June 1, 2016 at 9:59 pm
(June 1, 2016 at 9:50 pm)Light of Truth Wrote: Quoting things from the Old Testament that show you misread or misunderstand what is found there has no bearing on the God of the Bible claiming to be all Good and Just.
Without God as an anchor for objective morality there can only be subjective morality. That is just how it is. Most people (excluding sociopaths and whatnot) know that objective morals exist. If someone agrees that there are no objective moral values, then I would say it isn't really possible to live consistently with that view, which leads those people to believe in illusory morals and values to make life bearable.
I have no intentions of belittling any atheists. I am merely showing that there can be no BASIS for objective morals without God.
Please define "God".
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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RE: Does God exist?
June 1, 2016 at 10:00 pm
(June 1, 2016 at 9:09 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I say that cheeseburgers can only come from Ceiling Cat. I'm not saying that aceilingcatists can't enjoy a nice cheeseburger, but by acknowledging that they exist they must also be acknowledging the existence of their creator, Ceiling Cat.
![[Image: efb6d8fa517cb90bd7ace2d6b6a4060a.jpg]](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ef/b6/d8/efb6d8fa517cb90bd7ace2d6b6a4060a.jpg)
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